Developing a JBP or is it a shohin?

[Neli]

I am going to start a thread for you...Maybe I can inspire you to make a small tree.

[dansai]

Thanks Ken. That was along the lines I was thinking. My wife's family owns a florist shop so I got some real raffia now, but unfortunately it's been dyed. I'll see how it goes.

Thanks Neli

I haven't ruled out the small tree option but I am keen to have a go at setting this tree up to be a larger tree and see what happens then. I think though that the distance between branches is going to be too long for anything but a much larger tree and that the lower branch will end up going. Beauty is I can still cut back to the smaller tree.

I'll post up after I bend it.

Edit: Just checked out your other thread Neli. I like the trees. Might be a bit late for mine to do such bending but I will definitely attempt this when I have suitable stock.

[Neli]

Buy another one and start a small one also...so You gain experience on pine development while one is growing.

[dansai]

And the result of wiring.

Shorty Wired.jpg

The raffia I used was from my wife's florist. They bought it as raffia anyway. I've never used raffia so I don't know what it is like but this was papery and tore if stretched when wet.

Should I let this seasons growth run free to thicken everything and cut back into it for next season? Or will the raffia and wire bite in too far if I do that?

How long would I need keep it wired? It was pretty bendy and sprung back a lot. I understand the virtues of copper wire now.

I still want to bend the first branch down and forward but thought I'ld wait until it settled in from the work I did. Or would it be better to do now and get it set in place while it is not too thick?

No matter how this tree turns out I have learnt a lot already. Like wiring pine is very different to Fig, Lilly Pilly and other natives I have which either bend easily or snap.

[shibui]

I would let all growth go free this coming summer. If you get long, bare bits you can cut them off at the end of summer or the following spring. You have already found that they bud back around the base when you cut shoots back as long as they are less than 2 years old. Allowing it to grow should cause it to thicken so you will have to watch the wires and raffia. Remove both as soon as you notice either restricting the growth. I think you will be surprised how quickly the branch will set when it is allowed to grow. Worst case - if the new leader starts to straighten when you take the wire and raffia off just put another wire on (won't need raffia again) to hold it a little longer.

[Neli]

That top section needs to be shorter than the lower ones.
Maybe like this????

Shorty Wired.jpg

[dansai]

Thanks for your input Neli.

Unfortunately there is no branches, and no needles, between the right hand branch you have indicated to cut with a red line and the left hand branch above it except for a back branch just below the left one. If I end up going for the larger tree the lower small right branch and probably the low left one will go and the 2 above will become the bottom branches and the tree end up nearly 2 times as high as it is now.

Thanks again Neil for you feedback. I will let it grow freely this season to try and achieve some more thickness and keep an eye on the wire. I will try and build the top of the trunk and apex slowly by letting it grow and cutting back hard to reduce internodes. Repot will be into a large colander and maybe even thrown in the ground for good measure.

[kcpoole]

Thanks for your input Neli.

Unfortunately there is no branches, and no needles, between the right hand branch you have indicated to cut with a red line and the left hand branch above it except for a back branch just below the left one.

Place the trunkline where you need / want for the future tree, as you can graft buds or branches in where you need them.
I have a Small pine that has 2 approach grafts on it for that reason.

we do not graft as much as we should in order to improve our trees

Ken

[Neli]

Ken you dit me to it. Grafting is so easy. On that right branch I can see a small branch just before the red line. You can start ramifying that. Fertilize now with dilute fertilizer, and trim when it warms up. You might even get back budding on that branch and you need that.
The two lowest branches will need to eventually go but use them as sacrifices for now. Just watch out so they dont create reverse taper.

[stocaz]

http://www.bonsaisouth.com.au/bonsai/in ... deos?id=66
Check this video out

[squizzy]

Hi Dansai,

Grafting sounds like a good option which i didn't consider. It is the lack of branches and buds which made me think you were better off with that stumpy little branch as your new leader so you can select some branching from it as it grows out?

I will post a sketch soon to show you what I imagine you could do from that little branch in the future. being that it comes of the tree at a right angle might only add to its appeal as a trunk line.

check out my sketch and see what you think.

Squizz

[squizzy]

[Neli]

You need some buds on the leader. As long as it is covered with the tape you will never get them. Can You make plan maybe to put a screw on the dead part and tie that branch with wire so you remove the tape and just use wire to bend it. You need light in that section of the trunk, if you are not keen on grafting.

[dansai]

Thanks Squizzy. Awesome drawing. I've seen a few of your sketches now and I think they're great. Keep up the good work. I think if I go the shohin option it will become a great little tree in a few years.

However, at this stage I'm looking at developing it as a much larger tree which will be a 10 to 20 year project. If I follow this route then I don't see a need for any more branching down low and I may try to layer the short branch off.

I suppose there is another option which is develop it for a medium sized tree in which case I will give grafting a go.

Thanks Neli for your input once again. I see your point about leaving the branch exposed to light to allow for back budding. Unfortunately I can't see a guy wire achieving the result I am after as not only have I compressed the tree but also twisted it and given it movement in few different directions which would be impossible with just guy wires. At this stage I will let it grow strongly for a few seasons and reassess after then.

Thanks again for the input.
Dan