Advice on Japanese. Black Pine- Repot and /or wiring & pruning

[EJZ]

Hi All,

I have recently aquired a Japanese. Black pine.
I am eager to do some work on it, however it is in need of a repot.
If I repot it should I wait for it to settle before doing any work to it?
or should it be ok to wire and trim?

all comments and adice is much appriciated.

This is my first Black pine and i don't want to kill it.

Regards
Eugene

[shibui]

Conventional wisdom is never repot and work a black pine in the same year.
This may apply to Japanese climate or older trees but the reality here is that I can lift black pines from the growing beds and severely prune both roots and tops and 99% will survive under my care and conditions. I strongly believe that younger trees are more resilient than older ones and healthy trees are certainly more able to cope with stress than those in poor conditions.

I can only offer general advice rather than definitive for you because I cannot assess your tree, the conditions you will be keeping it under or your level of expertise - all of these can impact on the outcome.
You will have to make the call for your tree but I think it is possible to repot and do some pruning in 1 go but would probably wait before doing severe pruning or bending, etc until the tree shows it has recovered.

[dansai]

Great advice from shibui

Put a pic up. We would love to see it.

[Scott Roxburgh]

Its all about the health of tree, post a pic.

I always favour a repot first, it is the hard thing to do when you want to style though.

[kcpoole]

I repotted the one I purchased at the A.B Sale day about a month ago, and will not work the top until spring when it shows positive signs of recovery.
As shibui says, in Oz we can work trees harder then in the cold north, but I still like to separate the top and bottom work although I not a pine expert.

it is getting cold in Sydney now, so will not repot pines until spring. If the tree is healthy, you could do the wiring / bending work on the top side now

Ken

[EJZ]

Great advice from shibui

Put a pic up. We would love to see it.

Regards
Eugene

[Scott Roxburgh]

Repot or style, then fertilise and water to gain strength

[GavinG]

Maybe knock it out of the pot and take a look at the roots - if the tree is root-bound, or the mix is not good, the repot would be needed first. If it is not growing well due to root problems, restyling won't be good for it either.

Good luck,

Gavin

[shibui]

Looks healthy enough to me. Nice dark green and plenty of needles. I have pruned jbp in worse condition than that with no problems.

My advice, for what it is worth, would be to prune now, fertilise over winter then repot early spring. I have never experienced problems when doing those operations close together.

I note that some branches only have needles at the ends. JBP is reluctant to produce buds on bare wood so you need to plan to remove those branches completely and make your branches from the ones with shoots closer to the trunk. Where there are branches with shoots close to the trunk i would probably prune back the main branch and regrow the branch from the closer shoots but you may be able to vary that depending on the reality of the actual tree.

You will then need to study the various schedules for decandling and needle removal for JBP and work out what method you will use. Proper pinching is important to stop the branches getting long and leggy and to promote plenty of inner buds. As Ryan Neil said - you need to decide on 1 method and stick to it for a couple of years at least to get good results. All methods will achieve good results but some are more complicated.

[EJZ]

Hi All,

An update on the tree...I took this tree to a workshop at "Bonsai by the Harbour" in Gladesville Sydney.

With the guidance and assistance of Grant Bowie this is how the tree turned out.

I have decided to fertilise it well until Late Winter/Early Spring and depending on its health will either repot then or wait a year.

I will be following the maintenance program by Dennis McDermott, my current teacher at the School of Bonsai.( a copy was previously posted on the ausbonsai website)
I have seen the results and think it is one of the best programs for where I am in Sydney.

Cheers
Eugene

[GavinG]

You've bought a very interesting trunk there. It has such "lightning-strike" energy, I was wondering whether you'd consider leaning it over strongly, probably over to the left. That would mean rearranging the branches of course, but nothing's set in concrete yet. Nice buy, please keep posting.

Gavin

[mtarros]

Yes I also think you need to change the angle of the tree, you want to avoid having straight vertical or horizontal lines in your trunk for this style and the base is too vertically straight.

[EJZ]

Hi All,

If you look closely there is a tool case tilting the tree to the left as suggested.
Unfortunately the photo was taken at an angle that does not show the true front at eye level with the trunk.
The plan is to also compress the tree and put more movement into the truck so that it co-ordinaries with the bend close to the base.
The photo was taken at the end of the workshop, and there is only so much that one can do in three hours.
I was struggling to get the whole tree wired in that time.
( it's an old tree and some of the branches were quite brittle)
Thank you for your comments and opinions I appreciate all the feedback.

Cheers
Eugene

[shibui]

I would hesitate a very long time before criticizing Grant's designs so I can only assume the picture does not show the full story of this tree or maybe I'm missing the full impact of the design.

Unfortunately the photo was taken at an angle that does not show the true front at eye level with the trunk.

If you want informed opinions why give us an inferior picture? Surely a good, accurate picture that truly shows the tree would enable us to offer better opinions?
I would have thought tilting the trunk the opposite direction would change the vertical trunk and the 90 degree first bend to something more attractive????

You also appear to have 2, maybe 3 branches coming from very close together at the first branching. I know Grant is very strong on 2x2 branching structure but maybe there is no alternative in this case?

Sometimes in workshops we design an inferior 'immediate' tree that will look ok at the end of the session rather than the best 'future' tree that will be almost nothing at the end of the session but could ultimately grow to be a far better tree.