Pine ID

[alpineart]

Hi Squizzy , try to get an un-opened cone or at least a pic of a complete and undamaged cone against the needles would be good . Most cones are in the upper reaches of the tree so take a clear pic as the scales are different on on most and the shape is another factor . Position of the cone / cones on the branches eg, end of the main branch or on the secondary branches , in pairs , single , bundles of 3 or 4 , hanging down or pointing up will also aid in determining the species .

Needle length would be another , as would the shape of the needle , crescent moon shaped or half circle shaped this needs to be done under magnification simple clean cut across the needle without crushing it .Some needles have a serration along the edge , this can be felt as a restriction when slid between the finger and thumb in one direction . Then there is the colour , does it have a thin white line in the middle of the needle , is it a solid line or a dotted line , does it have 2 lines on the outer edge , these lines are very faint so the don't show unless magnified again . They are usually only present on certain tree's with dark green pine needles , but you cant rule them out

Yes mate , there is a lot to look for and at when truly identifying pines .When you gather all this info spend the next few hours , days or weeks searching Google for a tree with all the attributes you have found , its a mind field as i have said . Good luck . If all else fails call it a Maretime Pine .

Cheers Alpineart

[squizzy]

Hi all,

Ok I have some more detail so here we go.

I have posted pictures of the cones on the tree in tac and it appears they are positioned on the primary and secondary branches in groups of two and by themselves ( although the single ones maybe a result of cockatoos) the seem to point downwards and are approx the same size as the needles which is about 100 to 120 long.

The needles themselves actually range anywhere from 50mm up to 130mm. I have noticed this years needle length is the 120 to 130mm mark and last years was much shorter say 60 to 80mm. This may be a rain factor as sydney has had a wet summer.

The new candles are about 30 to 60mm long and at most the are splitting into 3 candles from the point of new growth.


The cones from what I can see turn a rich red/brown when mature and the seeds inside are a light brown colour about 4mm long and 2 to 3mm wide

I would say a cross section through the needle closely represents a perfect half circle and appears to have 2 thin white lines up the centre of the needle on the flat section which seem dotted. I would say it feels slightly serrated on the edges but not to noticable.

I am going to look some trees up now and see what I can come up with.

Cheers

Squizz

The bark on the branches is mostly grey with a red/brown coloured flake every so often

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[squizzy]

Another bit of info,

The red candles do have a resinous smell when you snap them but the needles do not break when you bend them. The needles are quite thin and almost double over quite tightly without bending or snaping. I have done some research and I think I am becoming more confused.

Cheers

Squizz

[alpineart]

Hi Squizzy , welcome to the pine I.D class .It is a mine field and persistence Pays of . Now Google pine cones first . Find the cone that best suits the size and shape and scale type . Then locate the same types of pines that have this long cone , long needle , then work on the bark . It does take some time very much so . Its all about the process of elimination With all these attributes then work on the canopy / branches structure . Sooner or later you will find the real pine or several that come very close .

I have spent thousands of hours trying to I.D one pine and cant find a match . There is another alternative and that's a DNA test which can be done fro free for 3 samples after that they charge .It is done in Canberra , can't remember the place but Steven actually gave me the original Info . To do the test they need , old and new cones , needles , branch ends min' 300mm , bark and as many clear pics as one would get for a perfect I.D .

Good luck , and don't quit . Quitters never win , Winners never quit . Cheers Alpineart

[squizzy]

Ok,

I think my guess at this stage is an aleppo pine P. Halepensis. Does anyone have any thoughts on this

[shibui]

My first thought from the pics was halapensis. It is quite common inland because it grows well in drier conditions but probably planted in Sydney as well. You'll need some cones as the size, shape and scale arrangement are key factors for id in pines.
I gave up trying to definitively id pines a long time ago - too many species that are very similar to be sure of correct id.

[squizzy]

Yes shibui,

I think thats the main reason I choose Halepensis. Its cone shape and size matched the ones I had seen on google images. The maritime had little scaley points on each segment of the cone which this tree did not have.

I had noticed however there were other characteristics that didnt fit the halepensis description so I am still not 100% sure

Squizz