Twin bunjin blacks

[Gerard]

Sorry about the poor photo but the background was difficult

Black pine twin bunjin.jpg

034.JPG

This was an interesting display at the BSV show on the weekend.
One of the visitors asked me if the correct front was displayed?
My answer was ....look at the picture.

The owner tells me that while on a tour of Japan they stopped at this place.

[FatMingsBonsai]

Great display, really compliments trees and picture

[63pmp]

At the risk of offending, I'm going to play devils advocate and ask why you think this is good bonsai design. Or if you think its not so good, why? Is it an appropriate display for a bonsai exhibition?

Paul

[Gerard]

No risk of offending,
in fact the reason this group was planted in this way was to provoke discussion.

The bonsai police would say, "you should not have crossing trunks"............
The Japanese tour guide would say, "but here it occurs beautifully in nature"

What I was impressed by was that,

the composition was created after this discussion

the tree mimics the natural scene very well and it is a credit to the artist for this reason.

As a bonsai without the background information it is not so impressive and many people would walk past without much more than a glance.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

[Craig]

Hi Gerard, i like the group, the two trunks rising then clashing with each other as they cross paths, only balancing after turning back on themselves. This will be a great 2 tree bunjin with some more refining,

[Pup]

[
The bonsai police would say, "you should not have crossing trunks"............Bunjingi( literati) allows for crossing trunks, so we have no problem.
As the picture is a famous painting of Bunjingi styling. What the Bonsai police might have a problem with, is the repetition in the display, as in the picture, and also the stand, for Bunjingi it should be a slab of wood more so than a stand.

I personally like the tree/trees

The Japanese tour guide would say, "but here it occurs beautifully in nature"

[chrisatrocky]

I like this very much, when I first saw it it reminded me of those continuess mirror image getting smaller the furtfer they go back. Art, imitating art, imatating nature. and I could imagine what the painter seen as he painted. So I would say this is a very good bonsai display.

chris

[Bretts]

Love the trees but have to agree the display could be improved.
If you had to use that picture it would have been improved by not intersecting with the tree. Maybe up and to the right some and a better stand. Maybe a three point display with a mountian type rock could have been nice.
Also the pot could be improved .
But yes love the trees

[Stewart_Toowoomba]

Hey Bretts

What changes to the pot would you make? I tend to agree with your comments re. art positioning but would like more specifics for the proper pot to compliment the setting. Having said this, I'd be very happy to have this display in my collection

Does anyone know if this is a print of the artist Hokusai??

[Bretts]

I was worried some one might ask that First thought is a very formal pot. Delicate ornate polished but non glazed. Fancy oval with a rim.

I think there could be several options if we had a better pic it could be fun to try some virts.

[63pmp]

I’m obviously a lot more critical of trees then other folk; I don’t think the trees work at all. While crossing trunks may or may not be contentious, the application of technique should soften the eye catching harshness of it, and I don’t think the bonsai-ist has achieved that, my eyes are constantly being drawn to the crossing, it's such a distraction.

While I agree that crossing bunjingi is acceptable, it must be harmonious with the design, it shouldn’t be a focus, here it grabs the eye and holds it. While it’s hard to see the details in the scroll it appears that the crossing is an act of perspective, one tree is very much in front of the other, the crossing of the trees in the scroll is much more subtle, the spacing of the foliage of the two trees creates enough negative space and character that the crossing is less of a distraction, the foliage draws the eyes away from the crossing. Also, in the scroll, the artist has managed to place the crossing over the distant landscape which is almost the same color as the trunk, this softens the crossing of the trunks; while the foliage is contrasted against the yellow of the sky, drawing the eyes there. The crossing provides interest, a wondering about two distinct trees meeting, but your not held to the crossing, The picture can also be perceived as two trees the same height, but seperated by a great distance (perspective), and the viewer is just in the right position for the two trees to blend into one. A nice visual image.

With the trees in the pot, it appears that the right tree starts behind the left, I’m not sure if it does but it looks that way, and comes forward to cross in front of the second tree, the perspective of depth is not working here. I also think the negative space between the trunks above the crossing of the trees is too large, making the angle of crossing too great, and this is because the second foliage pad is too far away from the trunk, also the rearward trunk lacks the dramatic curve of the painting to fill up the space. I don't think these trunks have enough dramatic movement in them to be good bunjingi, as they age they will end up like broom sticks. Here the crossing has become the focus and its distracting, not realy a good thing in a bonsai. To make it work, it needs depth, the front tree needs to have some nebari exposed, while the second tree its nebari not visible, because it is hidden by the roll of the landsape.

I think that any bonsai that needs to have a picture to explain the design is a poor bonsai, the tree should stand on its own; without the picture it fails to do so.

The scroll should help set the mood or story that is being told. A different tree, certainly black pine bunjingi, would suite the scroll better, but not an imitation of the trees in the scroll.

I don't mind the pot, it might be a little large, but the tree is still developing and needs the space. I don't like the use of colored gravel in bonsai on display, it detracts from the tree, though I think this is white particles in the potting mix, either way they should not be seen. I don’t think the stand works all that well either, especially since the scroll suggests a shoreline or seaside area, perhaps a flat timber burl in dark color would work better. The paleness of the stand tends to take the eye away from the bonsai, competing with the trees.

I think a three point display with perhaps a fish netsuke would also be appropriate, rather than another rock island. The fish would work in with the ocean theme in the scroll.

Personally, I don’t think this tree should be on display, I don’t think the design is successful, and everything else is too wrong to warrant bench space. Maybe in ten years or so with ramification and refinement, but it is too young at the moment.

Like I said, I'm probably more critical then others, and so these are just my thoughts,

Paul

[Sahara]

i loved this combination of the picture and the bonsai. i think it looks stunning and graceful.

i personallyu think that that having the picture and the tree are not an issue someone has tried to be creative in there own sense..
but each to their own eye

[LLK]

I must say that I regard this literati plus the painting more as a curiosity, that is as an example of bonsai origin and -history, of interest for the general public. As such, the juxtaposition of painting and trees doesn't disturb me.
And apart from that, I find this literati composition quite beautiful.

Lisa

[kcpoole]

Nice display and I like it very much, but why is it now OK to critique this tree?, when in this thread was posted a few weeks ago, viewtopic.php?f=114&t=8550&" , any of us who commented on it were flamed for for the same thing so what is different today

Gerard has posted it and acknowledged that it is not his tree, so why do we now have posts critiqueing it?

Need a "ducking for cover" Smilie
Ken

[GavinG]

Verry Interrresting Indeeeed, (lots of thinking noises).

I hope the owner is OK about his tree being put up for opinions by all us lot. Many thanks for doing so.

Having the same shapes in both the scroll and the tree(s) could well be dodgy in the way that the scroll should complement, not imitate, the tree, but conceptually the grouping is very powerful, precisely because the tree is so strongly eccentric. The scroll is another version of the same concept, but it also leads the viewer into thinking about whether the scene it portrays exists somewhere - to me it's very strong. The grouping attacks head-on the issue of "naturalness" in bonsai, and in literati style in particular. The scroll interfering with the top of the trees might be an issue.

In comparison with the scroll, the trees are thinner, with more foliage. Paradoxically, there might be less visual stress where the trunks cross if there wasn't such a relatively large competing mass of foliage. This also works with the pot - a pot that is lighter on its feet, possibly curving inwards as it goes under, might balance better with the slender trunks.

Thanks for displaying such a thoughtful composition.

Gavin