Mallsai any thoughts...?

[Elias]

Hi All,

Thought I'll share some of my mallsais that I did today, a few little junipers, and a cedar...

What are peoples thoughts on these, or mallsai in general...Do they serve their purpose?


Elias

[Asus101]

YOur first juniper, the one on the right, give it some 3d movement, not just 2d movement.

[63pmp]

All you need now is a Bunnings sticker

[Elias]

All you need now is a Bunnings sticker

Yeah well this is unfortunately the types of trees that sells the most, and often based on a pot and pot colour rather than the tree, I guess the general public will find it quite hard to pay hundreds of dollars for a bonsai, or even some larger tree or plants for that matter...
Other reasons why I have a lot of this size stock is because over the last few years there have been many break ins and in excess of 20K of bonsai was stolen in one night, as the previous owner wanted this to be his main focus for the business. At the moment its is only a small part of my nursery...

Anyways enough rambling, just wanted to see what peoples opinion were towards mallsai... I know I originally started with these kinds of 'trees', and went from there...

Elias

[Ash Barns]

Elias buying this type of material is probably how a lot of people kick off their interest in bonsai. These are are a bit better than mallsai as I know them(the sticks in pots,untrained with glued on stones) bought from the big stores at big prices.

I think you are on the right track with these, providing you give out a "how to care for" sheet with each purchase. The simple logic is that if the trees stay alive for longer than a year you have a better chance of return business.

Ash

[Pup]

These trees are starter kit trees. As such, should be sold as that. When dealing with the general public, we as Bonsai enthusiast's should,
point out what is a BONSAI.These trees do nothing for our art. They might make money for the vendor, but leave a sour taste in the mouth of decent dealers.
A decent tree takes a little longer to produce, but cost no more. So the price should reflect it. I have in the past sold these starter kit trees, and have had some repeat customers to buy a decent tree. They have also gone on to be competent Bonsai growers and Artist. So if we do that, we are doing the right thing.

Apart from all this the most important thing is to offer a back up service, ie after care instructions and like a new car dealer the first service is free. At your place of business. I hope this helps you in your endeavour to be a good honest vendor. Pup

[Elias]

Hi All, thanks for the comments...

Pup these trees are starter trees, and are always sold as that with care instructions.... it is a bit dissappointing to hear these(starter trees) do nothing for the art, as I thought exposure and education could help some people becoming interesting in bonsai and therefore aid the Art...

I have lots of people that come back for more mature specimens, pots, materials or even other starters to give as presents to friends...
Is it bad to sell starter trees..? I'm I not a "decent dealer" cause I sell these...? I thought I already was a good honest vendor...




Elias

[Pup]

Hi All, thanks for the comments...

Pup these trees are starter trees, and are always sold as that with care instructions.... it is a bit dissappointing to hear these(starter trees) do nothing for the art, as I thought exposure and education could help some people becoming interesting in bonsai and therefore aid the Art...

I have lots of people that come back for more mature specimens, pots, materials or even other starters to give as presents to friends...
Is it bad to sell starter trees..? I'm I not a "decent dealer" cause I sell these...? I thought I already was a good honest vendor...




Elias

Elias I was commenting as you asked for. I do not doubt your integrity. I admire that you provide a service. As they are sold as starter trees next one ask your customer whether they consider it a starter or Bonsai. With 3 years experience you will be surprised at the answer or will you.

I am truly sorry if my comments upset you. I read that you were seeking to justify selling Malsai which are abhorrent. That is why I made my comments. Regards Pup

[BonsaiBoy]

As far as Mallsai go they are better than most I see at commercial nurserys
BB

[Milehigh_7]

Hi All, thanks for the comments...

Pup these trees are starter trees, and are always sold as that with care instructions.... it is a bit dissappointing to hear these(starter trees) do nothing for the art, as I thought exposure and education could help some people becoming interesting in bonsai and therefore aid the Art...

I have lots of people that come back for more mature specimens, pots, materials or even other starters to give as presents to friends...
Is it bad to sell starter trees..? I'm I not a "decent dealer" cause I sell these...? I thought I already was a good honest vendor...
Elias

As many have pointed out, and on many other forums, it is "mallsai" that get many people started in the art. It is dishonest when a juniper cutting with no roots and glued on rocks is sold as a 20 year old specimen tree. It is not dishonest when you say it is a starter tree. If you help your customer keep it alive you have indeed done something for the art.

If a person keeps a tree alive they will likely do some research and one of the first things they will find is a forum such as this where they will find kind and talented artists such as yourselves to mentor them.

Be honest about what you sell and try to develop it as something with eventual potential and you are far more of a service than many would expect.

As many say your trees are not mallsai. These are often dead when the customer buys them and thus they have no chance.

[Joel]

Your doing a good Job Milehigh_7, keep it up.

You are indeed bringing new people to our hobby, which is a beneficial thing. You are also helping these people continue their journey, by providing them with proper/satisfying (even if it is only until they are really hooked and start culling down) trees, that aren't going to die with proper care.

I think the only problem here is that you called these starters Mallsai.... And to Aussies here, these trees are NO different to a lot of Ray Nesci's starters.

JayC

[Bretts]

I am sorry to say I don't like them Not even as mallsai.
Ray sells his starters for $3.50 in a plastic pot
You are right though Jay Ray does have some very mallsai type trees for sale in bonsai pots but you would not be able to walk out of the nursery without seeing what real bonsai are.
I can understand that you must supply what the customer will buy but I would encourage you to advocate some more advanced stock for sale as well so they can see what it is all about. this may mean getting some prebonsai stock from one of our specialist nurseries that deal in prebonsai stock.
Trees that I have been selling for mainly just over $100 are very slow in finding homes.I had a $8 liquid amber from Ray that after a few years was starting to look very cute but was never going to cut it on my bench. In a $3 pot I felt I could let it go for $37. It lasted two days and later found my neighbor had bought it and absolutely loved it. She stated she had seen my other trees but this one motivated her to buy The people who will fork out over $100 when they have never had one before will be few and far between.
I recently bought some pretty decent little figs for $15 each I have put these in $8 bunnings pots with basic brach structure that was pretty easy because they were good stock. I will sell them for $50-$60. I would be happy to have one of these trees on my bench and with continual work they could be very impressive little trees in a few years I reckon.
I would be interested what yours are sold for. Is it possible to also have slightly better stock for sale even if they don't sell as quick?
It is up to us to promote real Bonsai.
I discussed doing a little basic bonsai workshop with a very Nice lady over at BT and she gave me a clip under the ear [virtual] when I stated I would use $8 starter stock. I was made to see the error of my ways that if I was to teach then it was up to me to show them what real bonsai is. Even though it would up the price of the workshop participation by around $40 dollars more for the cost of half decent stock to work with.
OK I never ended up doing the workshop so I better shut up now.

[Elias]

Hi All,

Firstly I want to apologise, I think my understanding of mallsai was wrong and the thread should have been titled accordingly.

I only sell starter trees that are in good healthy condition.
All the starter trees I sell have been in their pots for several months or even up to a year before they hit the shelves, I'm currently using Debco Bonsai Mix because of convenience.
Most of these are potted into Chinese pots some glazed some unglazed, with properly wired meshing and the tree wired to the pot. Most are a few years old and all have had wiring and shaping applied, the starter trees in pots start around $30-$50 for junipers(Inc. some Shimpaku). The cedar is a lil more I've had that for 3 years and was 2 years old when I purchased it, I always try to as honest as I can when considering time,labour and materials.

The Junipers in the plastic pots would not be sold in that condition and it would take at least another year before they might be ready to be sold as a starters in my shop.

Due to security reasons I have pointed out I don't like to hold stock that is too valuable up to $600-800 range and these have to be put in a secure locked up garage daily although Saturdays are different.
Every Saturday at my nursery I have an older gentleman Hanh Nguyen with 30+ years experience in the Art. He brings with him 1-5 trees to show and/or sell. He handles all the customers bonsai and teaches me along the way. I sometimes work on some of my own trees and some nursery stock.

I hope one day I can have some proper Bonsai in my store, excellent stock, nicer pots... and maybe even hold demos or exhibitions, but like many things it will take time, patience and bigger bucks.

Anyways in future I will keep try to keep a camera handy, and compile some pictures of saturdays at my store. Here some pics of my store.

IMG_0151.jpg

IMG_0150.jpg

Cheers,

Elias

BTW: Hanh disapproved of all of the starter shown earlier, he didn't say nothing just looked at them and looked at me and nodded, a very sad moment. He did some tweaking and told me to take them all home for a while... I will try to be a bit more discerning when bored in future.

[daiviet_nguyen]

Hi Eliast,

I do hope that if the council goes ahead with the plan to develop St. Kilda triangle, you would
have better security there. Some of the trees at Mr H. Nguyen place deserves to be in the place
like your shop.

Cheers Eliast.