NPK and how we can use it to our advantage- discussion

[Jamie]

hey people

i have been doing a little research on ferts used individually, it got me thinking whether they would be of any use for trees within the growth stages? would the ferts be to strong for our growing on trees? im not sure, it makes for interesting discussion though, what puts on the width and height of our trees. the three basic nutrients NPK are mostly responsible for the growth in our trees, N-nitrogen promotes the growth of leaves and vegetation, P- phosphorous promotes root growth and K-potassium promotes flower and fruit growth.

now can we use this in bonsai to help promote the tree to grow faster? maybe? if we can individually feed our trees exactly what they need to help put size on our growing on trees then why not? i know there will be a lot of pro's and con's to this topic, which is a good thing as it gets us all thinking.
i have recently purchased nitrogen as urea and sulfate of potash, both have high quantities of the required nutrient, i have been quite cautious with them too.
i am going to be using one of the ficus benjamina's as a test subject to see how much it can take and to record any results.
there has been a fair bit of discussion of power feeding and fast grow systems, some have been put to use others not, i still personally believe we in Australia uder fertilise our trees, but how far can we take it?

well this is why i am bringing this up and going to be doing a test. i will also be using other stuff to keep the ferts in level with each other if possible. and the trace elements too.

anyones thoughts or ideas on the sublect will be great, i will still be doing research on the questions at hand.

jamie

[anttal63]

Ya wanna get the big guns out now??? Here's one for you Sulphate of Ammonia caution with this shite mate. a small pinch on the soil surface once every 6 months. Some people might still be under fertalising but you are about to find the limit if your not careful! NPK All the wholesome ferts have gotm.
I never take notice of these numbers. As long as you are agressive in a balnced means its all good. To push tings any more would be to alter and also control many other enviro elements as well. What are we gonna do? Set up Labs? Grow and let grow Jimmie.

[Jamie]

maybe not set up labs but unwittingly we are doing this by growing trees in a controlled manner, how much fert they get, sunlight, water, everything depends on us.

ok, the sulphate of ammonia seems to have an NPK of 20.5-0-0 this compared to the urea i have which is 46-0-0 shows a vast difference, i think the sulphate of ammonia will be safer to use as it is less then the urea, i have used the urea on my trees a couple of times at the reccomended dilution rates for a liquid fert, doing it via liquid feed is obviously a faster way of getting the nutrient into the tree.

i can see what ya saying mate, that a tree will only grow as fast as it can, or we allow it. i might be pushing things to the limit but this is also testing out inorganic fertilisers, along with organics such as seasol.

my curiousity can be an issue with these things, i like being able to push the boundries of things, if i can come up with positive results then hey, whats wrong with that?
i would like peoples opinions/experiences with such things

jamie

[Ron]

.....inorganic fertilisers, along with organics such as seasol.

Maybe this is the time to ask a question that's been on my mind, Jamie.

I get the impression that along with use of a general fert such as Miracle Gro every two weeks, Seasol and similar products are used in addition to to the Miracle Gro etc., not as a replacement for it. Have I got that right or totally a-about?

Ron

(And, yes, it's 3am and I can't sleep for about the 6th or 7th night in a row because I've got bonsai on my mind. My eyes are hanging out of my head.)

[Jamie]

dont worry ron, i am with ya on the cant sleep, i have back troubles that cause it though, bonsai helps me take my mind off it, sometimes anyways

ok as for your question yes, along with my regime with miracle gro every 10 days, i use seasol 4 days after the application of miracle gro, and i have a slow release on the soil aswell.

it can all be used in conjuction as long as the tree has time to take it in, and that the nutrient levels in the soil/potting medium arent super high that will cause the tree to reverse osmosis and try and push fluids (i think) back into the soil to dilute the nutrient levels, this can be dangerous to the tree and can kill it quite fast.

if you are just sticking with the recommended dilution rates and dosage intervals you should be fine.
there is also another option, that i have done it before without ill effect, where i have gone with half the recommended dilution rates but twice as often.

i actually beleive that is a better way of fertilising, but i am also in the middle of trials with ferts, hence this post, i will probably go back to half twice as often, this way the tree is pumping nutrients all the time.

hope that cleared some things up for ya

jamie

[Ron]

Thanks, Jamie.

Sorry to hear about your back. That must be an annoying problem with carry bonsai pots, soil bags etc.

[Jamie]

no prob mate, and yea, it has forced me into little stuff, pretty much so.

[anttal63]

oh wow i didnt realise the urea was higher and the whole time i was scared of the ammonia. Good on ya for goin at it mate but my trees are happier for not pushing that hard and i'm far from soft with fert.

Ron i'm sorry to hear your bonsai are keeping you up. It sounds like it's time to join up BA.

[Jamie]

Ron i'm sorry to hear your bonsai are keeping you up. It sounds like it's time to join up BA.

.....i think he is already here

and thats a fair call ant, like i said i am just testing things out obviously and wanted to hear others opinions on the idea, obviously i am not gonna just go ahead and put heavy ferts on all my trees, i think the best solution is a little more often, like i stated to ron i was using half the strength dilution rates but fertilising twice as often.


jamie

[anttal63]

Maybe??? but those heavy chemical nitris injected, fully sick, fully blown ferts are designed to use a couple times a year, to push that would maybe mean 3 to 4 times a year?

[Jamie]

ahh well then.. i have already used the fully loaded nitrogen fert urea twice, it was a month interval

no ill effect, i have noticed slightly larger leaves but this isnt a prob as the tree is still in a growth stage


jamie

[63pmp]

Urea has several problems. Firstly it is not absorb-able by plants in its original form, it has to be converted to ammonium or nitrate by bacteria in the potting mix. Secondly it is also highly soluble and will quickly leach out of your potting mix, probably faster than the bacteria can break it down. If you pH is on the alkali side it will produce ammonia which is toxic to plants. If you want to push the nitrogen use Ammonium nitrate, also called nitram.

Over feeding with the basic elements will lead to deficiencies in other elements, e.g. excessive potassium can cause magnesium deficiencies.

[Jamie]

thanks for the info 63pmp, that was the sort of thing i was after actually.

on the test subject i will also be using a complete trace element fert to match up with this sort of thing.

jamie