Zeolite, has anyone used it straight?

[Jamie]

hey people,

i just found a source for zeolite and am wondering if anyone has used this straight as a medium for bonsai? i am testing it with a fig i have to see the effects.
fig may not be the best to try it on as they can live in or on just about anything but i am trying to get a fine webbing of feeder roots, i havent been able to source diatomite in my area so i have resorted to the zeolite.

any info on this would be great


jamie

[Andrew Ward]

There has been quite a bit of debate about on the use of Zeolite.

I have used Zeolite as a part of my potting mixture for a number of years, and I do like the qualities of this product. Originally it was used because in Adelaide we had lost our reliable source of 3-6mm neutral pH gravel. The SA Bonsai Society was able to order a pallet from Zeolite Australia and pass on to members at a good price. Consequently it became 'the gravel' in many of our mixes.

We have since been able to source neutral pH gravel of 3-6mm. Also in the last 12 months we have been able to source diatomite direct from diatomite in Queensland ... the club is lucky enough to have a member who has a warehouse with a forklift!

Discussion around the 'overuse of Zeolite' has been around the concept of Zeolite 'locking' in the nutrient. I have discussed this with a number of bonsai people ... Mick Balzary is a strong advocate of Zeolite ... and Lee Wilson believes that (if I remember correctly) no more than 10% Zeolite in your mix due to the 'locking up of nutrient'.

I am a strong advocate of moderation. If all I had in my garden was Ficus Rubiganosa Bonsai then my yard would be pretty boring, if I lived on a diet of icecream alone then my cholestoral would likely be off the scale, if I only read magazines that started with 'B' then my reading experiences would be limited. Relate this to our plants ... a variation of ingredients in our potting mediums, a variation in our feeding routines ... seems to make healthy sense!

[Jamie]

i can understand what ya saying there andrew, but there have been some on here that have been using straight diatomite as a bonsai medium and getting great results. isnt it basically the same thing?
if i could get diatomite readily without trouble i would get it but this has been my only alternative so far?


jamie

[Andrew Ward]

It was the same in SA for a while, but I did not use 100% Zeolite. I do know 'stories' of others who have use 100% Zeolite, and I have used up to 40% as my 'sharp' addition to my bonsai medium.

When you hear of stories from around the planet of mediums containing broken terracotta (India and China), regular soil (I have seen this in China where they also use what I would call fencing wire), the Koreshoff Mix that contains a large quantity of stone ... then it is a matter of using what you have available.

If it works then all good! However, the nature of Australia's diverse climate and environment means there is not a 'one mix fits all' recipe for a bonsai mediums.

As a reference, Herb Gustafson's 'Bonsai Workshop' has a terrific discussion on soil mixes. I think it is scientifically current and makes for interesting reading. The other book worth checking is 'Botany for Bonsai - The Science Behind the Art' by Enrique Castano de la Serna (available through Stone Lantern). There is also an article by Don Waitkus 'Bonsai Potting Mixes (or the Real Dirt) ... http://www.torontobonsai.org/Journal/Jo ... ng.mix.htm

[AGarcia]

I don't believe that Diatomite has the same fertilser locking properties as Zeolite. It is mainly useful for its weight and water holding peroperties.
AG

[Jamie]

hmmmm, thanks andrew, and AG.

its interesting with the nutrient locking ? does this mean it doesnt release the nutrients like diatomite or it hold them longer than it should? being such a free draining medium i would of thought it would flush quite well, not to mention allow fresh air in around the roots?

this is getting interesting. i have two trees in it right now, one has a fig thats been chopped down to nothing, the other an olive that i just chopped.
i will see how these go in it before i make judgement with it all i guess. but would like to hear others opinions aswell


jamie

[63pmp]

Could you explain fertilizer locking.

Paul

[buddaboy]

Jamie. I once tried straight Zeolite on my Figs, NOT GOOD. I ended up repotting after about a month back into cactus mix due to a drop off of vigour.

Ron

[Jamie]

Could you explain fertilizer locking.

Paul

good call paul, i am still trying to figure it out too


jamie


edit- budda just posted.

this is interesting, can you explain what happened to them BB like were they drying out or ???

cheers!

[kcpoole]

As I have mentioned before, My mix is 1/3 Zeolite, 2/3 Diatomite.
I will Probably never use anything else now after numerous tests with other soils / substrates
Ken

[buddaboy]

They actually looked like they were missing some nutrients . leaves didnt go yellow so much as a greyish shade. used seasol and aquasol as feed.

Ron

[Jamie]

They actually looked like they were missing some nutrients . leaves didnt go yellow so much as a greyish shade. used seasol and aquasol as feed.

Ron

what that sounds like is it would of needed more fert....i dont mind that i will see how the tests go anyway

As I have mentioned before, My mix is 1/3 Zeolite, 2/3 Diatomite.
I will Probably never use anything else now after numerous tests with other soils / substrates
Ken

[

sounds good ken, my only problem is that i cant get diatomite right now, its a bit of a drive, about 2 and a half hours there and back if not more right now unless i can find a supplier that is is the next town half hour away which i havent checked yet!
which i will be doing tomorrow


cheers.

jamie

[Chris H]

Ken

Steve kindly (too kindly really) organised me some Maidenwell just before Christmas.

You live more or less down the road from me, where do you get your Zeolite from?

Chris

[bonscythe]

hmmmm, thanks andrew, and AG.

its interesting with the nutrient locking ? does this mean it doesnt release the nutrients like diatomite or it hold them longer than it should? being such a free draining medium i would of thought it would flush quite well, not to mention allow fresh air in around the roots?

jamie

I too have just started using Zeolite. I am led to believe it's nutrient locking properties are due to it's molecular structure, imagine tiny little pores on a lattice like structure. These little pores can hold ions of certain compounds, eg. those found in our ferts such as K, Ca and NH4.
I think the ion-holding properties of diatomite are not as prominent as those of zeolite but hey I could be wrong. I use perlite instead of diatomite as I can't source any. Perlite is almost the same thing and is cheap ($25 for 100L bag, which will last me years).
I reckon your right about the fresh air around the roots, the new soil mixes I have been using are basically a mix of zeolite, perlite, potting mix, coir and a tiny bit of humus. It drains so quickly, I feel much more confident that the roots are getting better air circulation.

Ken
You live more or less down the road from me, where do you get your Zeolite from?
Chris

Hi Chris,
If your in Sydney, Ray Nesci's Bonsai Nursery had some last time I went, there was only one more bag on the shelf though. Hope he is getting more soon!
Cheers

[Jamie]

i wouldnt of thought about using perlite in the mix, i thought it broke down over time? and it is so light i would be a bit worried but being in a mix of what you said sounds alright, i understand that the zeolite is negatively charged and it atracts positivly charged ions of nutrients (or vice versa?) but i would think it would be a major drama as it has such a free draining mix that it would be flushing out with waterings in between? i fertilise but not every second day... i am on a fert regime of miracle gro at standard dilution once a week, seasol every alternate week (which isnt a fert but it helps),i have also started using a fish emulsion fert every 10 days or so, a slow release of whatever is on special and replaced when needed, and now dynamic lifter or the likes
although i dont know how dynamic lifter will go with an in organic medium?

any thoughts on that?


jamie