English Elm

[kez]

Hey folks,

Yesterday I was lucky enough to pick up a nice big english elm, I have been wanting one for a long time but have not come across any so I was pleased to see a nice big one that was already fairly well built

IMG_4768 (1024x683).jpg

My plan was to go through and remove anything dead (I hate the way elms seem to just give up on perfectly good branches over winter, something that has put me off deciduous trees by and large) and then anything that would cause issues. From there I would select the best options and build from there.

After a few hours and a fair bit of wire here it is, Height is 70cm and the base is 10cm across

IMG_4778 (1024x683).jpg

I am fairly happy with where it is at, it has a nice natural feel and it looks like there is some nice nebari under the soil surface but I will leave it for the growing season and look for a suitable pot. There are a few thickish branches that I have left to see what shoots off them that I may remove but I will only do that if I feel like it needs to go once the tree leafs out.

I have no experience with EE's but I think I know the basics, though I know there are some members on here with some amazing examples so any experience would be great

Cheers,

Kerrin

[Boics]

Nice tree Kez.
According to bodhi you can readily rute prune even in winter and it will only encourage more vigour come growing season.
I'm no expert but consider him to be!

[tgward]

"if it were mine'-------because of the lack of taper in the middle to upper area I would air layer or trunk chop the centre trunk just above where the two branches emerge at the same point and create a new leader with the left hand branch --
the removed upper section could be a very nice smaller elm

[tgward]

also that first rh branch/trunk gives me the impression of reverse taper --be interesting to see what is happening at ground level---perhaps a ground layer at the widest section at the base of the first branch

[Boics]

Interesting suggestion with merit.
Tg.

[kez]

Thanks for the comments folks,

Tgward, I appreciate where you are coming from and can't argue with the issues in the areas you have pointed out, however I styled this tree knowing full well that these existed and I am not bothered by them in the slightest. This, as far as I am concerned is a nice tree at the beginning of its journey and can in time become even nicer still. Your comments (while I do appreciate them) are however the exact reason why I wasn't going to put this tree up at all,

I see time and time again on here peoples trees absolutely picked apart, by people that have made an assessment based on a photo (and I understand that this is done with only pictures provided, that's the only thing to go by) and it seems to me to be in the pursuit of a perfect tree. I wonder how many people were really proud of what they had bought, or created, so proud they wanted to share it with the community, only to have a bunch of people tell them everything that is wrong with the tree. The poor person is then left thinking maybe what a day ago was beautiful is now worthless or rubbish unless the stick it in the ground, or chop it all off. I'm not saying excuse rubbish, but all things to all people and I think we need to remember that. I know of a few people who refuse to share their work for this reason. Unfortunately very few "perfect" bonsai exist from what I have seen, but there are still a hell of a lot of really nice trees out there. How many amazing trees would we not have if the artist discarded a straight trunk, and just air layered the top, or just chopped the whole thing off. Or missed the opportunity for a beautiful tree due to a little bit of reverse taper, or some bar branching.

I see of late an awful lot of discussion of naturally styled trees, yet all of the above occur all the time naturally, unfortunately we can't have our cake and eat it to. Below I have added some pictures to illustrate what I see as beautiful trees full of glaring "issues"

straight.jpg

An amazing tree, with a dead straight, taperless trunk

taperless.jpg

Completely taperless mid section, I imagine in the early stages of this trees development they would have been told to chop it off and create a new leader? also numerous areas of bar branching

reverse taper.JPG

While earlier on in development then the above, still a nice tree and clear reverse taper in the trunk

taper.JPG

How many areas can we find on this tree where more than 1 branch originates at the same location?

bar.jpg

And again here, as well as a fairly taperless bottom half

Do all these trees need to be started again? trunk chopped, air layered? have half the offending branches removed?

I don't know if I'm offended, I don't know if thats the right word. I certainly bare no malice or grudge towards tgward, and as stated above I totally agree with where he has found fault, but I am absolutely not going to do any of what has been suggested. As I stated above all things to all people, at the end of the day it's on your bench in your garden, I just worry that after the judgements have been passed, until people grow enough in the art to recognise that it's what they like that matters, they might not be soo proud of their gardens anymore

[tgward]

dear o dear-----my humble apologies

[kez]

Mate like I said no grudge or malice, no diasagreement or offence taken with you personally. I also don't think what I have said is invalid

[KIRKY]

Hi Kez,
Nice pick up. I wouldn't remove anything. It has cleaned up nicely. As you have only just got it I would check the root system. See if it needs a repot/prune roots etc... (as mentioned they respond well to root pruning). Then feed up for Spring and see what you have once in full leaf. Then live with it for a few seasons decide next winter, what if anything needs to be removed. Personally I like it as it is. I think sometimes we are too quick to cut at new material before we get to know it. Look forward to seeing it in full leaf.
Cheers
Kirky

[Grant Bowie]

A way too common mistake in the early formation of deciduous trees is to take off everything with the slightest hint of a bar branch or cut the top back to nothing over and over again.

Keep as many branches as you can and that way nothing over thickens; including the apex; but the trunk will thicken up nicely.

Re weakness or dropping of branches in English, Seiju and Hokkaido elms; keep them well fertilised and pinch back regularly during the growing season. this distributes the vigour evenly throughout the whole tree and will mostly stop inappropriate branch drop.

As the tree gets older it will however naturally lose some branches that the tree considers unnecessary and these will usually be the self selected weaker branches; which is fine. You are then left with the strongest branches.

Nice start to the elm above in the photo,

Grant

[Pearcy001]

Cool little tree Kez, the aged bark is great. Would love to see a shot of the nebari.

Then feed up for Spring and see what you have once in full leaf.

Hi Kirky, (sorry to hijack the thread quickly Kez I hope you don't mind) do you mean start fertilizing now while the tree is still dormant for spring growth? I was under the impression I shouldn't fert until bud burst as it is just wasted.

Cheers,
Pearcy.

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[rodm]

Hi Kez
Nice pick up. Is it out of the bush or nursery. Nice plant either way. On the the first take I wouldn't be changing too much, give it chance to grow and develop. EE have a nice little habit of sprouting shoots out of no where and anywhere. But if you get tired of it can send it my way..... No not really but your tree has potential. Wait and see in spring you'll be surprised. Keep up the good work
Cheers RodM

[KIRKY]

Hi Pearcy001,
My suggestion was for a repot if required. When you repot I allow time before feeding. Regardless I start feeding early August. Reason being all deciduous start budding at different times. Some earlier some later. By Spring the feed I put on in August has started to break down enough and allows the tree to take what it needs. Especially true when we have mild winters. To form buds the tree is using any energy it had left from the previous growing season.
Cheers
Kirky

[Pearcy001]

Hi Pearcy001,
My suggestion was for a repot if required. When you repot I allow time before feeding. Regardless I start feeding early August. Reason being all deciduous start budding at different times. Some earlier some later. By Spring the feed I put on in August has started to break down enough and allows the tree to take what it needs. Especially true when we have mild winters. To form buds the tree is using any energy it had left from the previous growing season.
Cheers
Kirky

Thanks for the clarification Susan!

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[hugh grant]

Great tree Kez! love what you have done. love what you have to say too. why are we always obsessed to strip away the soul and character of trees just to make them technically adherent. Of course you have to be technically and theoretically skilled to make use of certain material and pull it off well, there is a fine line between making good artistry and bad artistry. love your work and love your philosophy.