JBP direction

[kez]

Hey folks,

Picked up a JBP today and have proceeded to do some initial pruning and wiring. Going very slowly at this stage as I don't want to take too much off the tree and kill it. I also picked up Leong's book on pines so will be reading up this weekend.

I have some pics of the current state of the tree and would love some advice on my intended direction and that rate at which I should proceed.

Here's the proposed front


Left hand side


Right hand side


I intend to have the second wired branch you can see in the front view (moving left) as the second branch, and will remove the entire section to the left (and all behind) of that. I will then take a candle that is extending above the proposed second branch and wire it to the right, and then choose a leader to form the apex.

My main questions are,

What does everyone think of the intended direction?

Is the work done thus far ok? I have left stubs on all bigger branches that I removed so as to avoid any possible die back issues and have sealed the cuts

How much more, if any, can be done at the moment to work on the shape?

When should the large section at the top that I intend to remove be removed?

Thanks in advance

Kez

[lakepipes]

Hey Kez,

I'd pull all the old needles and get some light into the tree.
I wouldn't take any more off and give it some time to push some new buds with a slip pot and in a month - a good feed.

Mike

[DavidWilloughby]

Hi Kez,

Great score, that is a nice bit of material. Correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like a Nishiki JBP not just your standard JBP (the reason I say that is because I have one similar from the same batch). Also great stuff in picking up Leong's book as it will put you in good stead dealing with pines, from my own experience as a novice, it has given me a tonne of confidence when it comes to tackling JBP's.

I'd think about thinning out the top a bit to get some backbudding in that area, similar to what you have done down lower, other than that you have done a good job on it. I wouldn't bother slip potting it, just leave it as it will reward you later. By that time I'd be guessing you would have read Leongs book and got more confidence in where to take it.

Look forward to seeing its progression.

Cheers

David

[kez]

Thanks for your replies folks, please feel free to keep them coming

I'll get started thinning out and see where it takes me!

I'm wondering when it would be the best time to look at taking off some more of the bigger branches?

Cheers David,

I'd love to say it is a nishiki (truth be told they were the stock I was eyeing off with the most confidence direction wise) but they were just in that next price bracket, and not something I was prepared to potentially kill They were the pick of the lot though!

Thanks again folks, keep it coming

Kez

[lakepipes]

looks like your standard JBP to me.
Here's a pic of my nashiki for comparison..

When you pull the old needles remember to balance the growth by leaving more sets of needles on the weaker branches and less on the stronger.

Cheers Mike.

[kez]

Did a little thinning out of the top this morning, also thought it might be good to add a size reference


Thoughts welcome

Kez

[kez]

Does anybody have any advice as to when it would be best to attempt further branch pruning?

Kez

[kez]

Did a bit more thinning of the top today to get some light in, looking to get some back budding and balance the vigour as advised.

Guess other than that it looks like I'm on my own with this one?

Certainly still lost but I'll work it out

Kez

[mtarros]

Hi,

when thinning out the tree you need to remove anything that is growing underneath the branch, from looking at the older picture it needed a lot more thinning out.

To be honest if it was my tree I would look at making a much smaller tree and lose the top, you would get much better taper also.

I would even have a crack at air layering the top off or even maybe try thread grafting if you want to keep it this size?
Sorry more questions for you to think about.

Thanks
Michael

[kez]

Thanks for the advice Michael,

I have taken a bit more out of it since the last photo and only left needles where I hope to get back budding so we will see how it goes. I plan on removing all of the upper left hand branches and then building an apex from the branches on the right so I think I can make it work.

Not confident layering at this stage

Kez

[shibui]

In my experience it is unlikely to produce back buds while there is growing tips on the branches. If you want buds back along the branches and have needles just cut the branch back to that place and buds will grow from the needles left on the shoots.If you need buds on bare wood cut back to the lowest healthy needles and cross fingers that some will shoot from the bare wood below. Does not always happen but you will still get buds from the needles that are left which is usually better than long shoots. Best time (late spring, early summer) has already passed but I have pruned like this at most times of the year and got results.

For others reading this, back budding happens better on healthy, well fed pines which this one appears to be. Sick or starving ones do not shoot back very well.

[mtarros]

I agree with shibui about your luck with getting back budding in the middle section of this tree.

You can try cleaning, tipping, fertilise and wait to see that happens.

[kez]

Thanks again folks,

Did the last thinning today and removed buds on anything I did not want to extend. Also trying to divert the vigour away from upper left section as I intend to remove it completely come autumn.

Shibui,

Thanks for the input, good to hear from someone such as yourself who undoubtedly has vast experience with these trees. As for timing, I am working off Leong's guidelines and in his book he states the best time to work on back budding is from about the first week of Jan through to mid feb. (working to a Sydney climate)

Anyway here's a pic of the tree as it will stay untill I remove branches and wire whats left


Hopefully I've done the right thing, I know what I need to do, it;s having the guts to do it that is the problem, but as you mentioned the tree is healthy so I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be fine.

Kez

[g.raft]

Hi Kez and others,

Here is an example of the back budding technique shibui mentioned. It is a little hard to see, but at the tip of the once bare branch I cut back to were there were still needles attached and hey presto it shot right back were I wanted it....phew!

You can clearly see where there are two distinct areas of back budding. Once the plant has regained strength and more importantly the growth closest to main trunk is strong enough I will remove that branch and start the ramification of a new, better branch. You can't see it in the photo but there are two more areas on this tree were I have used the same technique again. And once again it back budded right near the base of an existing bare branch which will allow me to start again so to speak, with better ramified branching.

Hope this helps.

Nice stock by the way!

IMAG0417.jpg

[kez]

I did up a bit of a vert today to show where I hope to take this tree,

I'm not the best drawer so keep that in mind but it at least conveys my direction


Would love to hear what you all think

Kez