Thickness to Trunk Chop At?

[source]

Hi all!

First post here, otherwise been lurking around. My question is specifically about a Swamp Cypress. I wanted to find out something that I've read conflicting advise on. If I have a tree that I plan to trunk chop about 1/2 to just over a half way up (The final desired height of the tree being 60cm), and then grow a new leader for a season, then trunk chop again to grow another leader to get a good taper - do I do the initial trunk chop when the desired thickness from the base to the first chop is 2/3's of what I finally want, or do I wait till its exactly the thickness I want?

In some places I've read that once you do the the first trunk chop, the thickness below will barely thicken, and all thickening will focus on the new leader. In other places it has said trunk chop when you have 2/3's the desired final thickness.

I'm growing the trees in training containers (30cmx30cmx12cm(h)) at the moment, not bonsai pots.

Thanks a lot

Kindly

Daniel

[Bougy Fan]

Hi Daniel and welcome. Trunk chops are a progressive thing - but the base will be no where near what your finished size is when you start. Sometimes you may even chop below the initial chop later on in a bid to increase taper. In order to thicken the base several sacrifice branches down low can be used. You use more than one in different places because the trunk will thicken in the spot where the branch emerges from the trunk. At least there are no problems get shoots on a swampy. You will also want to let the roots escape either into the ground or a gravel tray and feed heavily with DL.

[shibui]

The lower trunk will continue to thicken whenever the bits above it grow so while you are regrowing the new apex the lower part will also add thickness. It may not thicken as much as it had with an intact top but it will still grow. The more growth you have above it the faster it will thicken.

[source]

Thanks guys

Perhaps it'll help if I also explained my design idea a bit. I want to have a long slender trunk with a slight bow shape to one side going into a flat top style type swamp cypress.

So if I currently have a trunk thickness just above the base of 2 cm(0.8 inches) (at the base flare it is 3.5 cm quickly going to 2cm) and I want it to eventually thicken to 3.5 - 4 cm (1.5 inches) should I do a trunk chop this season and as I develop the new leaders and trunk chops again next season and the season after the base part of the trunk will thicken to 3.5-4cm (1.5 inches). Or do I wait till it gets to 3cm and then only do the initial trunk chop?

I'm looking for a ratio of about 1:16 for trunk width to height, simply because of the style the cypress is going for. In nature the flattops have quite a slender and gradual taper. see pics below

See the attached pics for the kind of style I want to go for (one a nature pic other a bonsai)

[shibui]

From the look of that bonsai I do not think it has ever had a trunk chop. I'd guess it has just been beveloped slowly by pinching young shoots and developing the shape over years.

Trunk chop and grow is usually aimed at getting much stronger taper than you want but may get what you want.

You are aiming for 1:16 with 4 cm base so the tree will be about 65 cm tall? I'd try chopping this year at about 1/2 finished height (30cm) then let it grow. Next year chop again about 3/4 finished height or where you want the main branches then start pinching and grow the branching a bit slower. I find getting branches to develop on taxodium is the hardest part. Good luck

[kcpoole]

Lovley pictures there Source
What species is the first one? some sort of Acacia?

Ken

[Olivecrazy]

Wow i like to have that bonsai maybe tall but its a unique tree im in the process of making a elm like this

[source]

Lovley pictures there Source
What species is the first one? some sort of Acacia?

Ken

Its actually a Swamp Cypress Flat Top Style.

From what I can see on the tree design on the bonsai pic, a trunk chop may have been done quite high up and then another a little bit above that to get those small curves after the elegant main trunkline.

I think what I will do with mine is leave it for this season to thicken up (its just started to be spring here) and then see next season about a trunk chop. I've got a tree with a similar nice initial trunk line, that has a place to chop it about 1/2-2/3 of the way up, but I don't think the tree is thick enough yet. Its only 2 cm. I'm concerned if I trunk chop it too early the area below the trunk chop won't thicken up to the eventual 4cmish I would want. I also did some reading up last night, and I think 1:16 may be unwise lol. I understand a bit more about ratios and why they are used, so I think for the style I'm going maximum 1:12 or prb 1:10 would be better.

Let me know your thoughts guys

[dansai]

Are you sure you understand ratios.

A trunk width of 4cm at 1:16 will give you a tree of 64cm, 1:12 only 48cm or 1:10 only 40cm.

So are you saying you want a smaller tree

A tall slender tree will have a higher ratio, say 1:20. So if your finished tree is 60cm you will be looking for 3cm diameter.

[source]

Are you sure you understand ratios.

A trunk width of 4cm at 1:16 will give you a tree of 64cm, 1:12 only 48cm or 1:10 only 40cm.

So are you saying you want a smaller tree

A tall slender tree will have a higher ratio, say 1:20. So if your finished tree is 60cm you will be looking for 3cm diameter.

Thanks, ye understood. I would like the tree to be 60 cm high, but I might increase the diameter of trunk I'm going for to 5cm - 5.5cm in order to get closer to a ratio of 1:10 - 1:12.

Should still give the appearance of a tall slender type of flat top, but won't be too thin to not give the effect of a tree

[dansai]

Well Good luck and keep us posted.

[GavinG]

Going by the photo you posted, you've already got the tree you want, it seems to me - long, slender and stretched, with the fringe of foliage at the top. I like it as it is, when I understand what you are modelling it on. Possibly be cautious about cutting the tree back, just to make it conform to abstract trunk ratios that have nothing to do with the ideal tree that you are evoking. Just my thoughts. I like what you've done, and the original - particularly with the drastic switchback high up in the trunk.

Once again, just my thoughts.

Gavin

[source]

Going by the photo you posted, you've already got the tree you want, it seems to me - long, slender and stretched, with the fringe of foliage at the top. I like it as it is, when I understand what you are modelling it on. Possibly be cautious about cutting the tree back, just to make it conform to abstract trunk ratios that have nothing to do with the ideal tree that you are evoking. Just my thoughts. I like what you've done, and the original - particularly with the drastic switchback high up in the trunk.

Once again, just my thoughts.

Gavin

Hey Gavin

I wish I could someday get a tree like that That tree was just an example of a tree from a picture of a swamp cypress I was searching the net for.

I would like to shape one of my swamp cypresses trees to be similar to that kind of flat top style in the future. At the moment my trees are very much in training to develop a good trunk