Just got my hands on this JBP, problem is even after all the hours & hours of research I've done
I'm overwhelmed and don't know where to start.
There is plenty of info on the net regarding de-candling, plucking etc but no advice on the problem I have of extremely long candles/branches with no candles down the bottom of the branches.
Don't know gonna keep researching before I touch it but is there any advice on what you guys may do to this tree to start with ?
Its going to take some time to develop back budding, and it may not happen where you wants it anyways.
Getting back budding involves taking the strength from the apical shoots and meristem, and putting it back down nearer the trunk. This means taking auxin production from the tips and encouraging its development back near the trunk. Two parts of pines that produce auxin are the needle meristem and the apical buds. Removing needles reduces/stops the auxin produced by these meristems, as well as reducing the amount of carbohydrates available for the apical bud, weakening it and it's auxin production. If the apex has a lot of buds you can remove them, leaving one or two. All this will keep some sap flowing up the stem, but not enough to make the branch strong again.
Leaving needles down low on branches puts the production of auxin back here, but the needles need light for the production of carbohydrates to make auxin, another reason to remove needles higher up.
I would not re-pot this year.
I would wire the vertical branches down to allow more light into the trunk area.
Feed the plant once a week throughout winter with weak fertilizer solution. This is because pines don't stop growing and are prone to potassium leaching, which can weaken them long before spring occurs.
Right now, I would definitely remove needles from the stronger branches leaving only 4-5 pairs at each apex. With pines, where the needles are is where the sap flows, so do not pluck needles low on the branches. I think it's easier for new stems to shoot from needles then from bare branches, though the axillary meristem is under the bark not in the needle fascicle, the needles provide carbohydrates for growth. (pines are not great transporters of nutrients to other parts of the tree, so leaving needles low will not feed those higher up but buds near by) Also removing the needles on the stronger branches will let light onto these lower needles and smaller weaker shoots,making them stronger.
I can see a few small shoots in amongst the mess which are beneficial. Start de-needling on the really strong shoots, leaving the smaller weaker ones for later.
I think nichigo.com, Joe's blog, had a good article on telling the difference from weak and strong shoots, though a google search would reveal the same results, if you are not sure what is strong or not.
I would then wait till summer for hard pruning these long shoots and de-candling, feeding throughout spring with an ammonium based fertilizer, and thinking about the design.
Hi Ross,
Nice material for a first black pine.
Places are still available for workshops with Mauro Stemberger at BSV on Sun June 23 and Mon June 24
Or if you lack the confidence for that you should bring it along to a club workshop night (July 22) and get help developing a plan.
Jow is giving a presentation at our next club meeting on pines (May 26)
Q: Why are we all here?
A: Because we are not all there.
Yes!!! Go to a workshop!!! You could also go to a club meeting; or hire someone to train you personally (probably the best way to learn, really) you go to Japan and become an apprentice.!!! All good ways to learn, cause there is no point in looking for answers or stimulating discussion on this forum.
I thought there was a rule about self promotion on this site.
first I would make a decision on the approx final height with regard to trunk and branch thickness and placement-------then you will know which to remove ,what to use as sacrifice branches and then start to reduce------
Thanks for your replies guys it can be a bit daunting when your learning
Just bought the book " Pine Bonsai in the Temperate Climate "
Alot of people are recommending it so hopefully it helps !
Workshop could be a great option to help my learning curve as well but may be a little hard to allocate time to come.
Where about is the club situated ?
I think you've got some great advice from Paul. Workshops and club inputs are also very valuable. The thing I'd caution about workshops is that you ensure you get it and follow. You can easily lose track and end up with a tree which has been extensively worked on, and you are not quite sure what happened for what reason because you got left behind at some point. An over-eager demonstrator can also do too much to try to make the tree look like it's better. I'm not for a minute suggesting that this will happen at the recommended workshop, but just beware in general. I often hear beginners at our club saying - oooo look at my cool tree I got help with. I ask them what they think about what was done, and they don't actually know why it was done. If you don't learn from the process you are just supplying practice material for someone else.
I think the key with pines is slowly slowly catchy monkey.
I'd start by doing a 2/3 reduction on that long straight trunk. It will immediately change the balance of the tree and help you and others to find a design. It is always good to reduce a big branch like that over two or three cuts, giving the sap flow time to adjust. Reducing it will also help with sending energy to the rest of the tree, which in turn will improve vigour and chances of back-budding elsewhere. You may also decide to keep a part of it for jin/dead-trunk in your future design. With pines I never cut branches off completely, but rather de-needle and ring-bark as you never know what may look good jinned in future. Once it's gone, it's gone.
The other key to success with pines (as with any other tree really) is energy balancing. This is done by removing growth (needles) from the strong parts of the trees, and leaving the weaker parts to bulk up. This is a long process on a tree like this and will probably take you quite a few years you get right.
Finally, I feel that people get too intimidated by pines. They are just trees!
"I make no apologies for telling people where to get local "hands on" advice. Those who come will learn."
Well no doubt they will learn, but that's not really the point.
Ross came HERE with a good question, when you say go elsewhere you are saying a) that he is not smart enough to understand anything that is said here; or b) people here aren't smart enough to answer the question.
It's pretty rare that a really good question comes along on this forum; I find it frustrating that people just dismiss it by saying go elsewhere.
If people don't take the time to write answers to good questions, and for others to either question or add to it (as Andrew has done very nicely) then it's hard to see what the point of this place is.
Just got my hands on this JBP, problem is even after all the hours & hours of research I've done
I'm overwhelmed and don't know where to start.
There is plenty of info on the net regarding de-candling, plucking etc but no advice on the problem I have of extremely long candles/branches with no candles down the bottom of the branches.
Don't know gonna keep researching before I touch it but is there any advice on what you guys may do to this tree to start with ?
Any help would be fantastic.
This doesn't really help this tree directly but as far as getting your head around growth concepts of JBP, read everything that Brent Walston has written on JBP at: http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/articles.htm in an hour or so you will be on the right track, then buy Boon's JBP DVDs. Jow's Pine thing at BSV would be worth the trip too.
Cheers,
Mojo
...Might as well face it, I'm addicted to Shohin...
"Any creative work can be roughly broken down into three components- design, technique and materials. Good design can carry poor technique and materials but no amount of expertise and beautiful materials can save poor design". Andrew McPherson - Furniture designer and artist
some good info there but may not answer directly, but the liks will surely help. the first one to Dennis' method may well help you and there is a link to JOW's blog with more great info too.
re the differing ideas in this thread, pleas be aware that everyones thought are to be respected and methods are different. workshops are invaluable, but as has been pointed out, are not the be all and end all too. Pauls info is gold and I will be pinching that for use in the wiki if you do not mind ?
I've had the same feeling Ross has with "where do I start with JBP?" I think it is the quarterly maintenance that causes hesitation. The decandle/pruning in summer, no fert till needles set, de-needling autumn/winter, wiring in winter, repotting in spring as candles extend, and so on. My experience has been to just start with what needs to be done in that season. So de-needling now is appropriate, then stick with whatever program is decided upon.
Of course, different people say different things, but as time goes by, you pick up what works for you.
I think Ross' tree will make an interesting tree development thread over time. I look forward to seeing what he plans on doing with it, and how it evolves.
