goyomatsu winter dormancy

[vlkcheng]

This is my first post. Got a question on the Japanese white pine. Do they need direct sunlight in winter to survive? Can I have the plant somewhere in my garden that doesn't receive direct sun but still in a fairly bright spot. The reason I ask is because I live in Brissy and I really like goyomatsu and hopefully by doing that, the plant doesn't get too warm during the winter days and able to rest. I've heard they really need that dormancy period in winter to do well. I've got a JWP in a nursery pot already. It looks really nice after I did some clean up work and wiring it. The needles looks very healthy even after a few days of > 33C that we've had recently. I know a lot of you will say I should never attempt JWP in Brisbane but I really want to give it a go.

Started doing bonsai for 12 months and loving it. I've got about 10 different species of plants at different stages of development, some in nursery pots, some in bonsai pots. Have been following this forum for a while and found a lot of useful info.

[63pmp]

I've no experience with white pine outside of my home in the central tablelands, NSW. We have 50+ frosts over winter with temps as low as -7. I would say that they would require some light throughout winter as pines don't completely go dormant during winter, and light triggers certain growth parameters. It is the chill that the white pine like.

Paul

[Mojo Moyogi]

I know a lot of you will say I should never attempt JWP in Brisbane...

I'll certainly say it, but no doubt someone will float in and run with "hard evidence" to the contrary. Then the "encourage the new member" crowd will say their two bobs worth.

The unfortunate fact is, Japanese 5 Needle Pine is challenging to do well in an ideal climate with cold winters. A JWP at your place is doomed, unfortunately. I hope you did not spend a lot of money on it. The honest truth is that you would be better sticking with trees that grow in your climate and are proven in bonsai culture, living in Brisbane as you do, there are plenty of exotics and natives that can be made into great bonsai.

Cheers,
Mojo

[bodhidharma]

JBP's do very well in your conditions. i have friends in your area that have many and they do well.

[LLK]

The honest truth is that you would be better sticking with trees that grow in your climate and are proven in bonsai culture, living in Brisbane as you do, there are plenty of exotics and natives that can be made into great bonsai.

I fully agree with Mojo. However, vlk writes:

I know a lot of you will say I should never attempt JWP in Brisbane but I really want to give it a go.

Some of us ask for trouble..... Perhaps, just perhaps, we will learn from our mistakes.
vlk, I can't do better for you than recommend you join a bonsai club. Brisbane has two very good ones, See http://www.aabcltd.org/find-a-bonsai-club-queensland/

Lisa

[vlkcheng]

Many thanks for all your input. I guess sometimes I listen to my heart more than I listen to my brain. And I've been doing quite a bit of that lately. I'll just keep water the plant and post a few update photos in due course.

[Grant Bowie]

I saw a very healthy Japanese White or Five needle pine at Wauchope on Thursday and it was doing remarkably well; much better than i would have imagined. Wauchope is very slightly inland of Port MacQuarie.

Previously i would have said a firm "NO" to trying in Brisbane; now its a firm "DONT KNOW"

Grant

[LLK]

Not to silence the bells of hope for vlk, but it occurred to me that one or two people have recently moved to Wauchope from Sydney.... Please correct me if I am wrong. Could it be that the said JWP which is doing so well belongs to the new settler(s) and is coping OK with the climate change, so far? On the other hand, I wouldn't have advised Sydney either as the ideal climate for this tree, and there are people further down the South Coast who say they can't grow the JWP.
It seems a number of questions remain open.

Lisa

[goueber]

Forget about winter I am very disappointed that I seem to have lost a Japanese white pine during the recent spate of hot weather in Sydney after putting some work into it over the last 4 years. I had repotted it from a black pot into a bonsai pot in Aug/Sept. Then I noticed the brown needles appearing after Christmas and now it's gone. Should it not have been in full sun?

[bodhidharma]

Then I noticed the brown needles appearing after Christmas and now it's gone. Should it not have been in full sun?

If we logically think about it Japan gets very hot and JWP thrives. I repotted mine last September and it is thriving here in Central Victoria. Maybe an aftercare problem?

[LLK]

If we logically think about it Japan gets very hot and JWP thrives.

Same here. My 2 JWP's stayed at their usual bench places in full sun by 38 degr., last week, without showing any stress. And they cope just as well with our Winter frosts.
But the info about 5-needle pines in Japan is quite a complex one, which I never expected! To start with, the Japanese climate varies from Tropical in the South to Cool temperate in the North. Then, the "Five-needle pines (JWP) are divided by geographical origins in Japan.". This isn't the case for the JBP and the JRP, just the JWP. Read the interesting discussion in a thread on the IBF: http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t5423 ... -varieties
Could it be that some of the Japanese 5-needle pine varieties that are grown for bonsai training, and that we have here, come from regions that happen to have a climate comparable to the Australian South? Especially with regard to winter dormancy? After all, both in your location and in mine, we have really cool to cold winters. I can't find an answer to that in the discussion on the IBC.

Lisa

[vlkcheng]

Goueber, sorry to hear.

[Jow]

If we logically think about it Japan gets very hot and JWP thrives.

Same here. My 2 JWP's stayed at their usual bench places in full sun by 38 degr., last week, without showing any stress. And they cope just as well with our Winter frosts.
But the info about 5-needle pines in Japan is quite a complex one, which I never expected! To start with, the Japanese climate varies from Tropical in the South to Cool temperate in the North. Then, the "Five-needle pines (JWP) are divided by geographical origins in Japan.". This isn't the case for the JBP and the JRP, just the JWP. Read the interesting discussion in a thread on the IBF: http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t5423 ... -varieties
Could it be that some of the Japanese 5-needle pine varieties that are grown for bonsai training, and that we have here, come from regions that happen to have a climate comparable to the Australian South? Especially with regard to winter dormancy? After all, both in your location and in mine, we have really cool to cold winters. I can't find an answer to that in the discussion on the IBC.

Lisa

I think that although Japan does get hot in parts they never get the dry heat we experience nor the 40+ degrees high spikes. If anyone has been to Japan in the height of their summer they will be able to tell you how very humid it gets. It is a different heat and a true cold (often with snow and not frost) winter. Similar in climate but at the same time quite different.

[Mojo Moyogi]

It's not the heat so much that limits JWP in Australia, but the lack of cold. There are very good bonsai growers in Melbourne who have given up on them.

Cheers,
Mojo

[LLK]

It's not the heat so much that limits JWP in Australia, but the lack of cold. There are very good bonsai growers in Melbourne who have given up on them.

Cheers,
Mojo

It seems that there are 159-plus (??) cultivars of the Japanese 5-needle pine. There might be some that are better adapted to mild winters..... Anyway, you Melbourne people might go and talk to the Conifer Gardens horticulturists. They have 19 Pinus parviflora on their books and might know of a variety that is more tolerant of our S. Coast climate. See http://www.conifer.com.au/welcome They are in Ferny Creek. Details http://www.conifer.com.au/?pageid=5 On the Homepage, go to "Conifers" and then to "Conifers list". Also watch out: the trees are cllassified under Small, Medium and Large.
One could write to the Conifer Gardens, but that's not the same as talking to them. They'll probably grow some of the pines themselves in their mild climate and have a lot of useful info.

Lisa