Worm juice & modern substrates.......

[Luke308]

Hi everybody!!

Just wondering if there is any benefit in using worm juice in modern substrates? I am using roughly 70% diatomite, 20% zeolite and 10% pine bark for most of my trees and am unsure if the use of worm juice will be of any benefit?

The reason I ask is "Worm Juice is a by-product of nature in liquid form, Worm Juice is rich in good nitrogen fixing bacteria, and the key is the 100,000CFU/ml bacteria plus ready available liquid minerals and trace elements for immediate plant uptake" (quote taken from http://www.wormsloos.com.au/worms.htm ) Is this still a benefit when using a predominately inorganic substrate? I dont understand the ins and outs of plant physiology all that well, but I want to know if I am wasting my time and money with worm juice?

If someone could explain whether or not it is beneficial and why I would be most appreciative.

Cheers

[The Specimen]

I too would like to know

[shibui]

$95 for 2000 worms - Tell em they're dreamin

As they state, there is relatively little nutrients in worm juice and the amounts will vary depending on what the worms were fed, the time of year, how many times the leachate was passed through the worm farm and how much evaporation occurred during the process so don't buy it for the fertiliser value.
There is the 'biological' component but no real evidence that these millions of bacteria, fungi and enzymes are any better than those naturally occurring in most soils anyway. Even in inorganic potting media bacteria and fungi appear and thrive naturally without having to add them.
I use worm juice from my worm farm on the bonsai as part of the regular fert program - It doesn''t hurt and probably helps.

Rather than buying this stuff, set up a worm farm and produce your own. Takes up little space, stops much of your organic waste from creating problems in landfill and provides some fertility for the bonsai and garden.
Everyoune should have a worm farm or compost bin(s)

[Handy Mick]

Worm juice, this is all I use these days 100%, my trees are very healthy.
Why wouldn't liquid worm juice not work like other liquid fertilizers?

Mick

P.s. I have three worm farms.

[Luke308]

Worm juice, this is all I use these days 100%, my trees are very healthy.
Why wouldn't liquid worm juice not work like other liquid fertilizers?

Mick

P.s. I have three worm farms.

From what I have read worm juice is not a fertilizer.

WHAT WORM JUICE IS NOT!!!!
Worm Juice is not a NPK fertiliser. Whilst it contains some Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium it’s major strength lays in it biological activity and complex range of other nutrients and minerals. Plants need more than NPK to grow well and we suggest you maintain your normal fertiliser program initially. However, once you have been applying Worm Juice for a while you will be able to reduce your fertiliser application as the soils natural processes will have re-established and the plants will be sourcing the Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium that was previously locked up in your soil. Remember, the value of Worm Juice is in the millions of beneficial bacteria that starts work in your soil and on your plants as soon as it is applied.

(quote taken from http://www.wormsloos.com.au/worms.htm )

That being said, it is the biological activity and its range of other nutrients and minerals that interests me. I bought 20 litres of worm juice for $35 which I thought was a little on the expensive side, but I wanted to give it a go. I am using 200ml per 9litre watering can. Is that a strong enough mix, or should I be mixing it stronger? If so what ratio.

I am still unsure about if there is any real benefit of things which promote beneficial bacteria eg worm juice, & go-go juice etc when used in a modern substrate. If you have a worm farm and it costs you nothing, then you have nothing to lose. But in my case where I don't own a worm farm, but want my trees to be as full of vigor and have a good resistance to disease and pests as possible I am unsure if this is the best option for me hence why I am asking the question.

How much does it cost to set up a worm farm anyway? And how much worm juice would each one produce?

[lacertilian]

Hi Luke,
I bought a worm farm (worm 'cafe' version) with a gift voucher so I can't remember the exact price. I found 2000 worms (enough for start-up) for $50 at a local worm farm supplier. They've just began eating their first meal and have already given me about 4 litres of leachate. Sounds like you're looking for a seaweed extract style product
I still use alternate weeks of seasol + powerfeed and either acidic plant food or yates fruit & flower (species dependent) but the worm liquid is just a bonus extra which saves landfill.

[Chad]

I have a worm farm, cost me about $100 for set up.
I use the juice on my gardens and on the bonsais and they love it. I put it on at 100% when ever I have any and the plants love it.
It hasn't hurt anything yet and in the end it's free so why not use it. Just through in all your vege scraps and paper and you get free fertiliser, I think everyone should have one.

[shibui]

Luke, Worm juice Is a fertiliser. Guaranteed analysis is the problem. To market a 'fertiliser' you need to supply guaranteed analysis of the nutrients in it. The nutrients in worm juice vary according to the time of year, what they were fed, evaporation rates and many other variables so the worm juice producers cannot GUARANTEE a particular analysis so cannot meet the letter of the legislation that covers this area. The way to get around it is to sell the product as not a fertiliser but 'soil conditioner' where there is no requirement to meet guaranteed analysis.
Mick is right you can feed your trees on worm juice. You will just use more to achieve the same result. Worm juice still has nitrogen, phosphate, potash, and most of the micro nutrients but they are in quite dilute concentrations compared to the commercial fertilisers - maybe 1/2 or 1% Nitrogen. This means I use mine undiluted on the plants while commercial ferts are diluted in water to give safe application concentrations. As the others have said, set up your own worm farm and worm juice is free so even if you use more it is still cheap fert.

Cost to set up and how much juice is produced is like how long is a piece of string. My worm farm is an old bathtub - Cost nil. When I mulch the garden well compost worms turn up uninvited so i can get enough to start cost $0 (and I regularly provide worms for friends and acquaintances who want to start for nothing too). Manure from local farmers, household scraps and garden waste as food - cost nothing so my setup total cost $0. Or you can buy commercial plastic tubs and worms - cost varies depending on suppliers and styles.
How much juice comes out depends on what you feed and how often you water it. Watering often will provide more juice but it will be less concentrated. Less water will give less but stronger juice

Biological activity is used as a selling point. What they don't say is that biological activity is common in all soils. The soil 'bugs' move naturally and start to appear wherever conditions are favorable. if conditions are NOT favorable no amount of additions will keep them there for long. There are huge numbers of 'bugs' inside us and on our skin, on plants and in all unsterilised potting mixes. Just leaving something outside will attract a whole host of microorganisms that come past in the air, rain and across the adjacent surfaces so it is unlikely that your inorganic soil mix has not been colonised by a whole range of soil life already. Most plants will thrive in sterilised mix but whether any of the micoorganisms or enzymes in worm juice will improve plant health I can't say.

[Luke308]

Thanks Shibui, your a champ

And apologies to Mick if I sounded like I was saying you were wrong. I was only commenting on what I had read (which is limited), but Shibui answered my query and it makes a lot of sense now.

I'm thinking I might invest in a wormfarm now, but I was wondering what you can safely put in the worm farm or maybe I should ask if there is any foods that should NOT be put into the wormfarm? Eg chicken carcasses, banana peel, potato skins, ctirus etc?

Thanks to all those who have answered thus far

[lacertilian]

I was told not to put anything; too acidic in (e.g - onion, citrus etc.), dairy related stuff and meats.
They apparently like cardboard egg cartons, egg shells keep pH up and they like to be moist.
Good luck

[Phoenix238]

I've been filling mine up for the last 3 months, just put the second layer on. Like Lacertilian said, no Citrus, Onion, Dairy or Meat products. You have to have something moist on top to draw them to the top layer, I use an old hessian bag, but you can also use newspaper or a commercially available "worm blanket." Keeping it moist is important, otherwise they seem to dive down deeper. Also, remember to drain the liquid in the bottom frequently. (I couldn't work out why mine weren't eating, then realised I'd been adding water without taking any out and they all dug down to the bottom where it was nice and moist )

As a side note, seeds seem to grow nicely in there. Especially if you throw the core of a pumpkin in there lol (had about 50 pumpkin seedlings growing on top) I don't think I'd ever purposely throw seeds in there though

[Handy Mick]

No dramas Luke,
I think everyone said what you can and can not put in, but I will add, I put about a 1/4 cup of garden lime in n top every 1-2 week's. This hhelps with composting and to keep a neutral ph.
Also I have heard you can make a dog poo worm farm aswell. (just for intrest for those with a dog and lots of poo)

Mick

[shibui]

Worms can handle small amounts of just about anything. a few bits of citrus or onion or meat will not do any harm but too much of anything can be a bad thing. Meat causes problems because it attracts flies before the worms get a chance to process it. When you have a really active bed they can process problems better and I have put chicken carcasses through mine a few times but that is not for beginners.
Worms only have little mouths so the smaller the bits of food the quicker they can process it.

Worms will process dog poo but they do not process any diseases so be very careful handling the resulting worm casts and juice and do not use it on the vegetable garden. There are several diseases that can be passed from dogs to humans through the poo.

[Chris H]

Shibui
Be careful putting dog poo in, particularly if you worm your dogs regularly. If the wormer is still in their system. Thats not good for the worms.
Tried it once, didnt go so well.

Cheers
Chris