when is a tree ready for a pot ?

[Paulneill]

when is a tree ready for a bonsai pot ? Is it when trunk is developed and you are ready to start to develop branches what do you think ? also how to judge the size of the pot to use ? i think its slightly bigger than the root ball ? thanks spring is approaching and im trying to plan each of my trees in advance.

[Bretts]

I still wonder why the Japanese chop a tree and then stick the base in a bonsai pot to grow a new one.
The usual advice is when you start growing branches?

[Elias]

I would guess when primary or secondary branching is achieved...? Also sometimes one has to reduce the rootball a couple times before placing a tree into the 'ideal' pot.

I'm guessing that the Japanese place some trunks in bonsai pots due to their vigour of some species maybe...? For example Tridents, they are often grown too far quickly and sometimes lack the finer qualities of a good bonsai....

Just my Hope to hear other peoples opinion.

[Handy Mick]

You can put it in a pot when ever, but if you are trying to thickening the base or trunk, well that's different, you obviously have to put the plant in the ground or grow box. After this point you can put it in a pot, if you need to produce the primary or secondary branching even create ramification, than over pot it.
As to the Japanese using bonsai pots for cuttings and the like, I think they use ordinary round clay pots mostly. It may have something to do with the price, or that they are porous and that it rains a lot over there and these pots help with keeping the roots less soaked.

Mick

[plantmanky]

Hi guys,

The answer to that question is when are you ready to see it in a pot. Some like to have it done immediately. I for one, don't even consider a pot untill a tree is almost finished. I have a number of bonsai that I've been working on for over 20 years some even longer and they still don't have a nice bonsai pot. I guess I usually start thinking about pots a couple of years before I intend to show a tree. I'm not in a hurry, I like to think about the options, the overall look, and so forth. Sometimes I've put a tree into a nice pot just for a show and then the following year returned it to it's training pot for more work to be done on it. I guess for me, it's a question of does the tree deserve a nice pot. It's sorta like "you only put on a tux when your getting ready for the dance", otherwise work clothes will fill the bill.

Randy

[kcpoole]

General concensus is " When you like"
No hard and fast rules except not too early as the tree will slow its development down too much.

for me. Once the tree is "finished" it will go into a pot, but until then training pots only.

Ken

[Bretts]

This is the best example I can think of at the moment. A beech trunk chopped and then grown back out always in a bonsai pot over 10 years.

004.jpg

[Jarrod]

Brett, I believe the reason they do it in a pot is that it is far easier to control growth, and node length can be controlled. A tree in the ground or large pot will always have longer nodes and coarser growth. In bonsai we want fine ramification and short nodes.

[Handy Mick]

Yes Jarrod, but we want it now! Everyone is always in a rush, and are willing to skip proper steps to get it faster.

Mick

[Bretts]

That did seem the obvious answer to me as well Jarrod. But asking some accomplished bonsai people I have never really gotten to the bottom of it. Careful growth in the ground gives great trunks that have no trouble giving branches where you need them and then there is also grafting that these guys use very expertly so I am left unsure.
Although this growth shown is over 10 years this tree is actually quite large and the growth seems amazing for being in a pot?
A couple of years ago I started down this path with a couple of trees but gave up opting for a larger pot agian when I thought growth was a little slow.

[Paulneill]

when i asked this question my reason for asking was not because i want a tree in a bonsai pot but purely for the development of the tree . what i should of asked was when should pot size be reduced to slow the growth rate . and i think my question has been answered different trees have different growth rates so this has to taken into consideration. and having less room for the roots to grow means slowed growth and shorter inter nodes better ramification smaller leaves I have a maple tree which is getting its forth and final trunk chop after this i will put it in to a treacota bulb pot where i will start to develop branches and grow out the remaining leader . thanks for the reply's

[Joel]

Tree's have not evolved specifically to grow in pots. Trees do not grow in pots in nature and would prefer to be growing in the ground. I would argue the tree is never ready for a pot. When are you ready to put the tree in the pot?

Joel

[Jarrod]

I have been told that you should never rush to thicken branches and the top of the tree as over time it will be harder to keep it fine. Perhaps that is the reason because the branches and apex are going to be thickening for ever.

[Tony Bebb]

A good question with some good answers.

Joel I like your philosophy. Randy I love your analogy and explanation. Bretts, Jarrod is on the money.

Not surprised you got what you need Paul. The simple answer is when you want. The reality is when certain goals are achieved. Your Maple sounds ready for a pot after the fourth trunk chop because it sounds like the trunk is ready. Growing in the ground or large pot will give you the trunk you need quicker, but developing branches in the same you run the risk of creating branches that are, or soon will be, too thick, and it is harder to maintain a small internode gap to create good ramification. The tree does not neccesarily need to go in a Bonsai pot for this as Randy mentioned but put in a smaller pot of any sort will give better results.

We constantly put trees into Bonsai pots too early for the trunk development and start developing the branches. I did this early in my Bonsai life and some of these trees that I have had for 26 years have reasonable trunks without being great, but as the branches are the only ones they have had for that time, they are totally out of proportion and too thick for the trunk. This doesn't matter if it is a Fig, Azalea or Deciduous tree as you can cut everything off and start again if you wish, but with conifers and especially my Pines this is a difficult problem to 'fix'.

IMG_0073.JPG

The goal with Bonsai is to have a strong trunk with proportionate branching. What was always classed as a good height to thickness ratio of the trunk was 6:1. These days, especially in Europe it is 3/4:1. For a natural looking tree the ratio might be 8/10:1. Either way thinner primary branches with fine ramification will make the tree 'look' bigger in overall size, especially in photo, and as such is the ultimate goal. This also goes for surface roots.

Once the trunk is developed to our satisfaction is when a tree should go into a smaller pot. It is totally our choice of this is a Bonsai pot or not. When a tree is ready to show off is definitely when it should go into a Bonsai pot. It is your choice how patient you wish to be as to when this will happen.

Tony