how can I be sure this is a black pine or a radiata

kvan64 · Post by **kvan64** » May 19th, 2011, 5:36 pm

Agree with datviet. Radiata has stronger smell. This however looks very much blackpine to me. It's quite common to have groups of 3 needles mixing with 2 in JBP.
Cheers
DK

Watto · Post by **Watto** » May 19th, 2011, 6:16 pm

If I could suggest an old fashioned way - touch the needle tips with the back of your hand, if it is "sharp" it's black pine, if its soft, its radiata.

Tony Bebb · Post by **Tony Bebb** » May 19th, 2011, 7:56 pm

Congrats Lisa.

The most notable difference between JBP and Radiata is 2 virsus 3 needles and the most defining difference. Bark and needles tend to look different, but not always. Candles on Radiata are generally shorter and fluffier if that makes sense. Best repot time is spring, but plenty do them in autumn but not this late. I only do Pines in spring.

Best Regards

Tony

bodhidharma · Post by **bodhidharma** » May 19th, 2011, 8:06 pm

Putting the cat in with the pidgeons but if it has two needles the lighter green and slightly softer needle could make it a JRP

Ash Barns · Post by **Ash Barns** » May 19th, 2011, 8:19 pm

Viewing the pictures leaves me in no doubt this is a JBP. I have both on my benches.

Jarrod · Post by **Jarrod** » May 19th, 2011, 8:22 pm

Regardless of what it is, I think it is weak or hungry because at this time of year I would expect to see fat buds/ candles. Currently I don't see any buds at all? Just my thoughts!

rawhide · Post by **rawhide** » May 19th, 2011, 8:56 pm

I am no pine expert but i tend to agree with Watto on the touch senario radiatas are very soft to feel ,where as blacks are coarse and sharp ,
but Bodhimharm has certainly throwm the cat among the pidgeons red pin???????

,my red pine is not that dark though but my pines are not geat examples
red pines are in between on the feel of needles ,only my opinion

PS squizz i reckon it looks a whole lot healthier now than when you first got it

daiviet_nguyen · Post by **daiviet_nguyen** » May 19th, 2011, 9:06 pm

184 views and 21 replies: average 1 reply per 8.7 viewings!

A very interesting post, indeed!

So, squizzy, what is your conclusion? Or you are keeping us guessing?

alpineart · Post by **alpineart** » May 19th, 2011, 9:13 pm

Hi Guys , radiata's can and do have 2-3-4-5 needles all on the one tree .There are 2 species of 2 needle Radiata pine also .If its has small buds it may very well be a Pinus Nigra Austriaca OR European Black Pine , they tend to bud up quite late in the winter .They meaning EBP have been passed off as JBP for years .I wouldn't bet my lefty on it but i would have to go with Pinus Nigra Austriaca , going off the pics , needles and small buds . Whilst a Nigra is reguarded as a two needle pine they vary between 2-3 , the needles are firm between Radiata and JBP . Hope this helps .Cheers Alpineart

Chris Sirre · Post by **Chris Sirre** » May 19th, 2011, 9:34 pm

daiviet_nguyen wrote:The needles look to soft and wimpy to be a black pine. I tend toward radiata! Does it have a nice smell when you crush two or three needles in your hand?

Black pine does not have any scent at all; while radiata does (you can get addicted to it?).

I think you're right there Daiviet. A JBP is a lot more prickly than a radiata. This does look like radiata to me too.

Cheers,

Chris Sirre

Craig · Post by **Craig** » May 19th, 2011, 9:39 pm

Which one is it

I'd like to see some good pics of the forming candle buds, usually a good start to identifying pines, don't Radiata and JBP have different coloured buds?

squizzy · Post by **squizzy** » May 20th, 2011, 7:54 am

Well I didnt expect to open such a can of worms but with all the info here its no wonder I was confused with its variety. Maybe its inconclusive until I see some bud formation. What should I be looking for?

squizzy · Post by **squizzy** » May 20th, 2011, 8:40 am

For all those who are interesred. I will summarise what we have so far.

I have picked the needles and crushed them and they are quite a pine like smell.
The foliage seems soft to touch compared to the black pines I have( if they are black pines)
After a second look some branches are covered in groups of 3 whilst others are pedominatly 2
The bark is a pinkish brown

Also to add which may be relevant. I pruned the november growth down to within 2mm of the growing point in december and the tree produced a mass of the light green coloured foliage( 2 and 3 shoots from each cut) This was in order to reduce leaf length. This may or may not explain the lack of buds with its current growth?

I have attached some more photos of a candle I sacraficed for this discussion.

One thing that certainly comes to mind now is how many bonsais have been in judging under the wrong name? I am a horticulturalist myself and have always been intrigued by this miss naming of plants. We all have an a opinion but no one is ever quite sure( myself included).

Comments?

Squizz

Post by **NBPCA** » May 20th, 2011, 9:47 am

That is definately a 20 cent coin ! I am absolutely sure of that!

Craig · Post by **Craig** » May 20th, 2011, 9:55 am

to see the colour of the buds,(circled in green) is going to require better pics

AusBonsai

how can I be sure this is a black pine or a radiata

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