Is my Hornbeam too Tall

[Bretts]

I reckon fix the roots, do it slowly with selective cutting and shortening over the next 10 years while you grow the branches and then keep developing it for the rest of the time you share with it. Think long term on this big guy!

I was thinking a ground layer. Have a perfect set of roots in 10 years

[Jarrod]

Knew that was coming mate

[Bretts]

[Pup]

G,day Brett, I agree with Jarrod the roots are less of a problem. They can be fixed the same way as when you wire and move a branch, you have less scaring showing you have more gradual taper, and the branches can be set easier.
Also a very slight turn to the left, so that the middle root is coming straight at you then wire that root out of the straight at you position.

The peice sticking out can be taken off and the height is good. There problem solved when you come over we can trade

Cheers Pup

[craigw60]

Hi Brett, once you get some dense ramification going the leaf size will reduce. I have one originally grown by Nel Saffin from bsv. It would be about 30 years old now and I think the leaves are a credible size. The hornbeams don't seem to grow all summer like some deciduous trees so you need to work the foliage from quite early in the season. I find by late Jan they have pretty much stopped growing for the season.
Craig

[Bretts]

Hey Craig
`Just looking through some google pics and found full sized trees with leaves at least almost as big as mine have been There are many smaller as well though and I have learnt that Hornbeam hybridize very easy.
Remember the Carpinus carolina of Ray's and how different the bark and Autumn colour is to the same species of yours. So I at least entertain the fact that it is possibly a different strain than usually used for bonsai. But being a Ray tree I am sure it is at least spread around NSW for bonsai
I don't remember Ray having his Betulus as bonsai I will have to try to remember to ask him if he has a refined one next time so I can get a better idea just how well the leaf will reduce.

My English Elm stop growing mid Summer and never start again but my Hornbeams never stop mid Summer right through to late Autumn in most cases.

[Bretts]

G,day Brett, I agree with Jarrod the roots are less of a problem. They can be fixed the same way as when you wire and move a branch, you have less scaring showing you have more gradual taper, and the branches can be set easier.
Also a very slight turn to the left, so that the middle root is coming straight at you then wire that root out of the straight at you position.

The peice sticking out can be taken off and the height is good. There problem solved when you come over we can trade

Cheers Pup

Hey Pup

I might have to borrow Bodi's trunk bender and Skippy's wire to get some movement out of these roots. I always thought that I may learn advanced root techniques such as carving one thick root into two with this tree.
I might post up some pictures of the base in another thread as I would love to learn some techniques for root adjustment.

Not sure a trade is a good idea Old man. Danica reckons I won't be able to lift it by the time I get a decent set of branches on it

[Bretts]

Thanks for all the great comments Guys. I have had this tree long enough and it is time to choose a front and stick to it. All your comments have helped alot. Had another look out at the tree and I think the virt angle is pretty close. The front that Jarrod mentioned does have interesting movement but the base is just wrong there. I finally figured it was not even so much the roots pointing straight at the viewer but more so the lack off to the right being the old front? It makes a very flat side to the trunk! Also when you look a little more left of this you see the worst of the taper in the trunk base. But he has convinced me to push it as far to that front as I can (before the roots upset it) to increase the movement in the top section. It will mean a little redesign with branches but I think it is worth it. It also gives the best taper on the base. It will also need some advanced root adjustment but I figured that was always on the cards. Oh and the more I come around the better that new leader will look. It is due for a re-pot this spring so now I just wonder if I can get all this done in the large bonsai Pot or it is back into the foam box
Have to wait and see what is going on when I re-pot it.
Thanks again!

[anttal63]

Chop it to the first branch, Layer it and then stick it in the ground. That will fix all those issue's!!! Besides you are young enough and good enough to make a great tree. Little bit of catch up now is better than catching up for ever.

[Bretts]

Came to update the hornbeam and realised I never put a pic of the chop in here

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This tree always tricks me and makes me think it is budding out early

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I would like to tilt it forward a little more but can't decide until I get the apex as good as I can. Oh and I have toothpicks "hopefully" creating new roots around that large back right root so I lent it back to make that root deeper in the pot

[Bretts]

The plan was to just let it grow wild this season but it was taking up too much room and was difficult to rotate on the bench.

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Also the chop had started to callous so I figured I better start working the shape I was after on the scar.

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It also got a thread graft mid summer last season. I might be ok for removing the host branch from the graft but last hornbeam thread graft failed at this point so maybe I will cut host branch next spring.

I plan on using a new leader about here

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I have several dormant buds to choose from but have just chopped the leader back to the last couple of weakest branches above. I will let this grow wild agian until next spring before cutting back to the new leader.

[barefoot]

Brett:
My tuppence worth.
Tree height depends on your vision. To keep at this height tilt the tree 5-10 degrees to the right to get rid of the straight base. This will give slight movement in the truck which already has movement to the left. This tilting will also broaden the base roots system by exposing more root giving the impression of a fatter base. I would also try and fatten the base area below the current first branch by thread grafting(approach graft) 3 or4 scarifice branches in. By the time the ramification of the upper branches happens you could be removiong the scarificial branches.The bumps and scars given by the grafting of scarifical branches will give the tree trunk base area some character currently lacking

[Bretts]

You have touched on the major Issues I see with this tree now Barefoot but I am not sure I can agree with all your remedies.
Tilting the tree more to the right than it is at the moment will exit the soil at more of an angle and this will also improve the new angle of the apex, but I think it would actually make the base look worse.
I think the front before repotting last spring shows a better base than now. I don't see how tilting it more to the rightwill improve the base. I am planning for some where in between being the best between angling the lower trunk and showing the best nebari.
I am working the base and the apex. Maybe I can tilt further right in the future but I think that will be at least 10-20 years away.

I do like the idea of thread grafts to increase the base flare on the right it has been a constant issue with the tree. There are dormant buds there and although all the other buds shoot out they never do anything. I might muck around with that next year

[Bretts]

I chopped the main leader back again about a month ago as well as A little trim here and there. I was told this would be ok but it did bleed profusely. Doesn't seem to have hurt it much but I will endeavour to get that work done in early Winter next time.

There is a dormant bud as I indicated in an earlier post that I want to become the dominant apex which will mean the leader being taken back another 10-20mm which should balance things up a little more as I plan to lean the tree to the left a little more at the next repot in another couple of years. Hopefully the roots on the right have improved by then.

Still want to let the tree grow a little wild again this year but I will also put a little more work into balancing the strength of the tree and start to refine the twigging of the branches.

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[kcpoole]

I do like this tree very much Bretts
Not too long and it will be real nice mate

Ken