Olive - Ideas please

[Andrew Legg]

Hi Everyone,

Here is an olive I dug out recently. Still got lots of time to decide what to do, but thought I'd post to see if there were any good ideas out there. The tree is about 30cm at the base and total height is about 75 cm with big rotten hollow in the middle. Dead wood goes all the way up the trunck, as does the live vein.

Cheers,

Andrew

[EricB]

Hi Andrew,

In my opinion, your olive presents some character. It has an interesting base and a nice movement in the first half of the tree. Then it becomes quite straight. and less interesting. From the picture, it seems to me that the trunk may have an inverted taper close to the top. Based on your picture, I would be tempted to suggest to cut the tree past the second bend and use a new branch to grow a leader, because to me, as it is the tree is too high and the upper section of the tree isn't as exciting as the bottom one. But perhaps you rather make a feature of the dead wood that goes all the way to the top.

It looks that your tree has been dug up very recently; the leaves look flat and are losing moisture (especially those on the small trunk). Is it an impression? Can you confirm? If it's the case, they are likely to dry and fall. Not to worry, new buds will appear from along the live vein in spring.

it would be great to have a couple more photos from different angles.

Cheers,

Eric

[Michael]

hey andrew


didnt no if u saw this in chat last night may help with ur future plans see what u think http://www.absolutebonsai.com/black_olive_bonsai a tree to move towards with that twin trunk maybe


cheers mick

[Ninja]

Andrew.

This photo does not do this trunk any justice!!
Your going to have to add some more photos from different angles.

Juan

[Andrew Legg]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replies! Eric, you are right, there is some reverse taper as you go up the trunk, and it does straighten up in the top half, so it does loose interest. The reverse taper depends very much on what angle you view it from. I will put together a collage and post the trunck from many angles. The tree was dug about 2 months ago now, and you are right, it is losing moisture, particularly on the smaller trunk which went pretty much straight away. The leaves on the larger trunk seem to be hanging in there, but I am going to assume that they will drop in time.

Mick, I will have a look at the other post and let you know what I think. I am in two minds as to whether too keep the smaller trunk as it seems so characterless in comparison to the other one. I guess it is nothing a bit of carving/shari work would not cure!

Juan - OK - you win. As you helped me dig it, I guess you would know. I'll work on getting better pics posted.

[EricB]

Hi Andrew and Juan,

I have just realised you are from South Africa... I live in the Adelaide area where olives are part of the landscape. Could you tell us about the olives you dig out there (species, terrain, distribution, etc.)? Is it a major species for bonsai in South Africa?

The leaves may drop with time. If they don't, they will be pretty inefficient leaves anyway. I tend to snip off all branches from my olives to start afresh (although some advocate that some leaves should be left to draw sap... I must say am not convinced it makes much difference.

Re the upper part of your tree, the inverted tapper could disappear with some discreet carving.

Cheers,

Eric

[Andrew Legg]

Hi Eric,

I live in Cape Town, and Juan lives about 150km up our West Coast from Cape Town. The olives we typically dig are Olea europaea ssp. Africana, and you can get the low down on them on this site http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantnop/oleaeurop.htm . We dig these up in areas around Cape Town, and from farm land near the Cedarberg. There are many opinions about how best to dig them, but I have found that taking them out, cutting through the bole, 45 deg edge and soak in rooting hormone water for a few days. Then into a free draining 2 to 4mm sand mix to allow them to root for a few years. Training normally starts after two to three years. Some guys cut of all branches, some guys leave them on and defoliate, others cut some branches off and leave the foliage on the rest. Different strokes for different folks. We find that some trees sulk for a year (sometimes longer), and others sprout out happily within about 6 weeks. I've experienced both.

As far as terrain is concerned, I have been to two dig sites. One is in a area of rolling hills and has sandy soil and rocky as hell (maybe I should say bouldery), and the other was on the side of rocky outcrops in a very hilly/bordering on mountainous terrain, with quite rich sandy/loamy soil.

The Africana is the main species we go for, but there are others like the Dune Olive and the False Olive (Buddleja Saligna). I don't have experience with the dune olive, but it is definately less popular for bonsai. Of course the Buddleja is not an olive at all, but makes a lovely bonsai with the leaves reducing fantastically.

[Andrew Legg]

OK - here is the best I can do with a small image size for a 360 rotation of the olive. You can't pick up the details, but you can get a good idea for its shape. I will have to take a new photo for trunk detail.

[Andrew Legg]

OK - here are two bole photos. 4438a Shows the main olive under discussion. This one had one main root and not much else, and I did not do a major chop on the bole. The other photo is the other olive from the same dig location, but shows quite nicely the bole treatment with the 45 degreee cut.

[Ninja]

Yo Andrew
I would cut the stump way down to the first branch to induce some tapper.
Tilt the tree about 15 degrees upward. and expose more of the tuber.
Carve the secondary trunk to the silhouette (yellow line) of a big tapered trunk with a nice uro.
I know the first impression when I saw this was Literati, but I changed my mind
Short, fat and load of character. Mail me a more detailed photo and I will do you a proper virt.

Hope this excuse for a virt give the right impression.

Juan

Olive cutdown.jpg

[EricB]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks a lot for the information. It's very interesting. Here, in SA (South Australia!) I dig olives out pretty much the way your do. This year, I have potted olives with some roots and others using the technique you explain (sawn off base and 45 degree cut of the cambium + a few days in a seaweed solution). The sawn off trees budded first (maybe a desperate move to survive).

As to your tree. I quite like photo #6 as the front (I like the shari). I 'll stick to my original impression: reduce the size of the trunk by half and rebuild from a side branch. Hopefully others will tell you what they think.

Cheers,

Eric

[Ninja]

My one idea on the trunk
Sorry for the hideous pot!
Juan

aus bonsai andrew virt.jpg

[senseijames]

G'day Andrew and Juan, seeing as how you are from Africa I am going to ask you about the Juniperus Africana, so I shall open another post, cheers.
James

[Ninja]

Trunk option 1 virt

Andrew tall trunk virt 1.jpg

[miyagiman]

beautiful, love the style & the movement. carving virt looks great, my type of tree looking like that. miyagiman.