Tree on rock composition??? Help & advice needed please

[hugh grant]

How's it doin
I am thinking of doing a rock landscape composition (it'll be my first ) and I wanted to know from anyone if doing this sort of work and styling at the this time of year is going to be ok, does anyone know anything about this kind of style
the tree I am going to use is shimpaku juniper and is growing in the usual black 6 inch plastic pot that we all know and love , so of course there would probably be a lot of root needed to be removed to get it snug on a rock, is alot of root rudection going to be safe? Or should I give it a root prune now and then another one later on in the year to prepare it for planting on the rock? Or just get on with it and give a good old root prune and put it on the rock now?
These are all things I just want to carefully consider as I don't want to stuff it up.
Sorry for all the questions but that's how you learn ain't it
let me know if you have any thoughts or have any experience.

Thanks
Hugh

[kcpoole]

I have not done a root over rock with a juni, But have several Maples

I grew the tres from cuttings in Pipes to have really long roots that I could position over the rock, Then Bound them with Glad Wrap to the rock and buried them for 2 years
When I dug them up I expsoed the roots and rock and are now developing the upper section of the trees

Here is a photo from 2005 showing them growing long roots

I am only now developing to Branches and foliage, so shows how long this process can take. The trunks are only about thumb thickness now.

Sorry i do not have more photos of the process or the trees, but maybe can get some as they are now

Ken

[hugh grant]

Thanks mate for your advice BUT I was actually talking about doing a tree on rock composition not a root over rock composition. The tree on rock style or what they also call root in rock ( that's where you can get confused between the two) is where you are trying to create a scene where a tree or a number of trees are growing in a rock to create a landscape. There's is an excelent example in Bonsai Focus 87 that shows a few junipers growing in a rock done by kimura, although I don't won't to make mine nearly as large as that one it follows the same concept.

Thanks again

Hugh

[Gerard]

Hi Hugh, Kens advice is spot on. The root growth slows when exposed to the elements so if you want them to thicken and cling to the rock it is best to bury the rock completely for a couple of years.
I recall a story told by a club member about a workshop with a visiting Japanese demonstrator, he was given a selection of rocks to choose from. He said "these are not rocks they are potatoes" they were all round shapes.
It is important to choose an interesting rock, a boring rock is still boring in 20 years.

regards Gerard

oops just read your last post, I am still talking about root over rock

[Bretts]

I would plant and do a rough styling. Not sure what season would be best for this species in your climate though.

[hugh grant]

It's ok Gerard but a good point though about the rocks have to be interesting otherwise there's not much point.

That's the plan brett I know it's a good time to repot juni now but is planting on a rock going to be different for them in this season.
Thanks Brett
Anymore other info people...

Hugh

[Jamie]

shouldnt be any different as it is going on the rock then getting buried- same diff as repot basically.

[Mitchell]

In the last 4 weeks I have bound two figs and lilly pilly on rocks. Packed them with spagnum and wrapped with plastic, the LP I used a old pair of pantyhose and stretched it over.
It's only being 4 weeks and they are just about fully bound to the rock. I think you should be fine.

[alpineart]

Hi Hugh there are many ways to attach the tree to the rock.
1/ You can trim the roots to suit the rock , the down side is it slows the tree and limits the use of all the roots.
2/ You can carve the rock to suit the trees roots , this is better as you can place the cuts in the desired position for the best exposed root look.You still have all the power of the root-ball working to anchor the tree .
You carve deeper than the root thickness so a mix of Muck can be placed under the roots , in the grooves and over the rock so it has a layer of mixture to retain moisture and improve adhesion to the rock .
I use hemp parcel string to wrap the roots on all rock plantings ,Wrap in an open web manner then smear more mix/muck over the open webbing and continue wrapping with string . I have found this method the simplest and easiest . On a Juniper it would take about 6-9 months for the string to decay so i find it unnecessary to place an outer wrap over the root/rock combo .

If you do cover with a plastic wrap make sure you dont over water and water inside the wrap , drainage is essentual .Place the finished set up into a large container/training box and sit back and plan the next one .After the string has decayed if you are not happy with the stability of the tree apply some more string.

Now would be O.K if you dont plan to savage the roots , if you want to root prune then i would leave it until late Winter early Spring .Hope this helps .Cheers Alpine

[hugh grant]

Hey everyone thanks for all your advice it's very helpfully for a root over rock. But I think you have all misunderstood me, I am wanting to create a rock lanscape planting where I plant I tree on a rock not attach it's roots the rock and splay them over to create a root overrock style. So in that case I am not wanting to bind the roots to a rock and them bury it to be expose later, I am just wanting to plant the tree on the rock and situate it's roots to grow upon it not around it to create a scene of a tree growing on a rock not arond a rock. I hope this clears up what I am asking from my original question and I hope you work out what I am saying as in style wise to the rock, a land scape with a tree growing on a rock not attached by roots grasping the rock which is of corse the root over rock style.
But thanks for all the great advice on the root over rock, it will be helpfull to me when I do do a root ove rock style.

Hope I've got it put out now on what style I mean.

Hugh

[alpineart]

Hi Hugh , plant as per normal tray planting if thats the case .Cheers Alpine

[Jamie]

right your after a tree on rock planting, you need to find a rock that will be of interest, grind out the pot section if necessary, and if possible drill through the rock to underneath to give it some drainage.

use much to build up the size and depth a little bit and use a good mix to plant it in.

jamie

[hugh grant]

Ok thanks guys now where on the same page
the stone I got is a piece of pummus and is interesting lookng it has a lot of grooves and notches in it so it's a suitable stone to use. I don't think that I'll drill a hole into it but I'll use the muck to hold it one the stone. so do any of you still think this procedure is fine to be done now still in mind that there would alot of root reduction?
Thanks

Hugh

[bodhidharma]

O.K Hugh i am with you and, yes, i have done one. The juni first...You have to leave at least a third of the roots as my experience has taught me the tree suffers and sometimes dies. Secondly, the tree will need some sort of drainage so a hole in the rock is not a silly idea to prevent root rot. thirdly, holding the trees in place is your next challenge. You can drill small holes in the rock with a masonry bit and thread wire through and tie the tree into place, i have not tried gluing them into place but have read somewhere that it is not the way to go breaks down or something. I have put a small Mugo into a rock but actually carved out a hole and drainage for it. Colin Lewis's book the art of Bonsai design has a brilliant article on it. I hope this has been some help

[Bretts]

Hey everyone thanks for all your advice it's very helpfully for a root over rock. But I think you have all misunderstood me, I am wanting to create a rock lanscape planting where I plant I tree on a rock not attach it's roots the rock and splay them over to create a root overrock style. So in that case I am not wanting to bind the roots to a rock and them bury it to be expose later, I am just wanting to plant the tree on the rock and situate it's roots to grow upon it not around it to create a scene of a tree growing on a rock not arond a rock. I hope this clears up what I am asking from my original question and I hope you work out what I am saying as in style wise to the rock, a land scape with a tree growing on a rock not attached by roots grasping the rock which is of corse the root over rock style.
But thanks for all the great advice on the root over rock, it will be helpfull to me when I do do a root ove rock style.

Hope I've got it put out now on what style I mean.

Hugh

I was with ya all the way Hugh

Brett
I would plant and do a rough styling. Not sure what season would be best for this species in your climate though.