THE JWP PROJECT

[shibui]

Soaking the seeds is a good way to get that process started in my experience. As of this morning only around 6 seeds have sunk from the batch yesterday, which to me indicated the water has penetrated. I'm not too surprised given how thick that shell is so I'll leave them to continue soaking longer.

Good to hear someone else discount the 'if it floats it is not viable' theory.
I've seen a number of people reporting that floaters have germinated. I know that unviable seeds do float in water but some good seeds seem to have enough air inside the shell to make the seeds float so I'm confident that some seeds that float in water are still good. I sow all seeds. If they are not viable they won't germinate but at least I'm giving them all a chance. Maybe if you're sowing 1 seed per pit it would make sense to sort viable and unviable but the floating V sinking does not seem to be an accurate ID method.

[Matt_W_NZ]

I'm confident that some seeds that float in water are still good. I sow all seeds. If they are not viable they won't germinate but at least I'm giving them all a chance

Off topic slightly, but of the 50 JBP seeds I got from you last year Neil, I had 50:50 float vs sink but stratified and sowed them all and got 84% germination.

[shibui]

That doesn't seem off topic. It confirms my assertion that some floaters are still viable. I'm confident that applies to all pines, including white pine so do not throw out seeds just because they float when you first soak them.

[Raniformis]

Maybe some of the cultivars suffer from inbred depression. The 'glauca' is already a slow growing dwarf, selfies might make super dwarfs with terminal vigour.

Pinus parviflora var Tasmania.... No offence intended my Tasmanian friends, just an outdated joke.

[Raniformis]

I collected my seed from different trees but they were grafted, I suspect they're all the same clone.

Screenshot_20240512-165144_Gallery.jpg

I think these are grafted to Pinus strobus. Left and right are the JWP and centre is strobus.

Screenshot_20240512-171714_Gallery.jpg

The gold on the strobus is very pretty, the needles aren't much longer than JWP but much softer (1st and 3rd pics are JWP).

Screenshot_20240512-172158_Gallery.jpg

Grabbed seeds from the strobus but unfortunately they get a bad rap for bonsai.

[Ryceman3]

Moving on to the next phase ... The seeds have been soaking for a week or so and all but 7 have sunk. Ideally I would've got to this a bit sooner, but that didn't happen. Over the last week I have changed the water several times though (adding hydrogen peroxide each time). Time to prep and bag them for stratification.

Seed 2 Strat_01.jpg

Rinsed the seeds off and laid them out on a mildly damp paper towel (hydrogen peroxide in the water to dampen the towel)

Seed 2 Strat_02.jpg

Fold so another layer of the paper towel is over the seeds...

Seed 2 Strat_03.jpg

Place damp (not wet/soaking, just damp) vermiculite over the top of that ... again soaked in water with hydrogen peroxide.

Seed 2 Strat_04.jpg

Fold all in and enclose in the paper towel, then label and bag the package.

Seed 2 Strat_05.jpg

This one above is going in the fridge now for a couple of months. I repeated this process with the other half of the soaked seeds and these are going into a dark, safe place at room temperature (warm stratification) probably for a month or so before I transition these into the fridge with the others.
I have picked a place where temperatures remain pretty constant around 20deg or so give or take...

Seed 2 Strat_06.jpg

That's it for today.

[Ryceman3]

2 weeks on and I pulled out the seeds just to eyeball them and check no fungal issues were surfacing (which is my main concern right now).
So far, so good for both batches. I changed out the paper towel for both though as a measure of caution regardless... again moistening it in water with a bit of hydrogen peroxide added.
As a helpful aside, I decided to put the vermiculite into a teabag (same as the ones I use for fert). Makes it easier/less messy when checking the seeds and rehydrating the vermiculite if/when necessary.

JWP-seed_03.jpg

[Ryceman3]

Time for Batch C.
I am going to treat these the same as I do other pine species I have propagated from seed. Essentially soaked as before, cold stratified for 2-4 weeks (depending on when I get around to them) and then sown. Ideally, I would've started these a couple of weeks ago but I have been overseas for the last month and have just arrived home. I also started on a batch of JBP today so there will be something to reference with (although not really much value scientifically).
The other two batches are looking good. I feel the hydrogen peroxide has done a good job keeping fungal issues at bay, nothing to speak of on either the fridge or warm stratified bags. I'll give them a few more weeks and then most likely sow all seeds at the same time.

JWP Seeds 0724_01.jpg

[Promethius]

Looking good! I’m on a similar timeline with my JWP batch, but delayed a H2O2 treatment by 10 days due to other life priorities and found fungal growth on every seed. Gotta stay regimented, as you’ve been!

[TimS]

Thanks for the update Ryan, I think I’m about 2 weeks behind you just due to being a bit tardy getting mine into the fridge

Crossing fingers for at least some germination

[Ryceman3]

I just got around to sowing the first 2 batches of JWP seed today.

Batch A : initially soaked for a week, then cold stratified for 3 months continuously.
Batch B : also soaked for a week, then left in a dark place at a constant temp of around 20deg for 2.5 months, then in the fridge for the last 2 weeks.
There are 35 seeds in each batch, so a decent quantity to evaluate.
I used regular "store bought" seed raising mix and topped it with a thin layer of vermiculite which is my standard thing to do with other pine species.
They will get a clear dome over the top and then probably on to a heat mat for a bit, although I don't know if that is really necessary.
Let's see how this plays out!
I have another batch that are still to be sown, hopefully in the next day or so along with my JBP.

JWP Seeds 0824_01.jpg

[TimS]

Thanks Ryan, i've sown my 50 or so i had left a week ago crossing fingers something happens eventually!

[Ryceman3]

No pictures (same as the last shot essentially, but just to keep all up to date on the thread before I forget.
Sown today :
Batch C : This batch was soaked for about a week, then cold stratified for just over 2 weeks (same sort of method for JBP essentially)

[Raniformis]

I'm struggling to get germination from mine via standard paper towel methods (10 weeks cold stratification). I grabbed a couple of cones while they were still closed and absolutely oozing with resin and chucked some seed directly in soil after a soak and no germination after 6 weeks. I reused the soil in another container and a seedling popped up around feb when it kicked into the 30s. I'm pondering whether it needed the heat to germinate.

Pretty much all the seeds I collected from open cones were shot, nothing but a dried up embryo inside. I found the same with cedrus, seeds collected towards the end of winter are much more viable than seeds collected late summer/autumn.

Hopefully you guys have better luck. I switched my focus to Mediterranean cypress in the horizontal form so still up to trade when the time comes.

[shibui]

Just by way of a little bit of experience with white pine seed.
White pine has a large seed with a very thick, woody shell.
I picked up some fresh white pine seed at the Hobart Botanic garden. The cones on the trees were just opening with seed on the ground under the tree so I know it was fully ripe.
I tried several methods to germinate:
1. Seed sown and left outside to stratify naturally - zero germination. Pot left for 2 years. Still zero germination.
2. Seed shell cracked in a vice then sown outside to stratify naturally - 4 out of 10 germinated.

From this limited experience I'm guessing the thick shell may have some impact on germination and may be one of the germination inhibitors that protects the seed through cold winters.
I believe that JWP comes from cold mountain areas so probably has one or more germination inhibitors. Stratification is likely to be important for germination.

If I had more seed to work with I would definitely try a colder and/or longer stratification which, I gather, works for US growers.
Cracking the seed is tedious but, from my limited trial, seems to have a significant impact on germination of JWP.

Good luck with your trials.