Monstrous olive

[James93A]

Hey everyone,
I haven't posted much on ausbonsai before but I had to share this one. Hopefully the seller is on here to keep tabs on this tree too

Some family members and friends have told me I'm crazy and that this isn't a bonsai it's a full size tree but surely I'm not alone on this one :p

I took a trip down to Melbourne just to pick up this humongous olive stump that I purchased for an unrefusable offer. So I packed the bags and the missus and off we went for the weekend.

The tree was collected by the seller from an orchard in Rye as I was told. Unsure of the age but I'm assuming it is at least over 60 years - a very old tree. He used a bobcat and cherry picker to collect it. Trunk width is 77cm across. Has a big cut on the top which will need attention from kaizen bonsai's big carving Dremel bit.

Plan is to do a fair amount of carving on the large cut and have a very short foliage but powerful looking tree by exaggerating the trunks size and including a large V shaped hollow from carving on the back to create a tree that looks good all 360 degrees of it.

If anyone has a spare forklift so I can put this onto a stand please let me know [FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY]. It's a three man tree to carry, and a lot of groans. Maybe I've gone overboard here..

Here's some photos of the monster

IMG_20170227_175101.jpg

IMG_20170227_175115.jpg

IMG_20170227_175241.jpg

Which do you guys think is a better front?
If anyone knows how hard I can cut this back without getting dieback please inform, I've never worked with olive before any horticulture advice here appreciated!

[treeman]

You can cut wherever you like. To me, this tree is too big for a bonsai. Big does not mean good.

[Max]

My God.....that's bloody awesome mate....i haven't got 3 friends, so i'd never be able to get something as remotely close to that beauty

[Raymond]

My God.....that's bloody awesome mate....i haven't got 3 friends, so i'd never be able to get something as remotely close to that beauty

As for the tree, i LOIVE IT! lots of carving potential.

[James93A]

Fair enough tree man!

Thanks guys it was a battle to get it into the yard that's for sure.
Definitely gonna hit it with the Dremel Ray, will be lot of fun

I'll keep you posted on this one

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[peterb]

Hi James
I'm seriously looking forward to the progess on this monster . ONYA for taking it on
cheers
peterb

[shibui]

Youthful enthusiasm Treeman. I'm sure we used to have some of it

Have fun with your olive while you're still young enough James.

[treeman]

Youthful enthusiasm Treeman. I'm sure we used to have some of it

Have fun with your olive while you're still young enough James.

Yes! I didn't mean to hose down the enthusiasm. (I still have lots of enthusiasm but not so youthful anymore ) This tree will actually make a spectacular courtyard tree for someplace in the city in the ground (given a few years) but as a bonsai you will need lots patience and as sure as night follows day, it will get moved on. Too big to handle and to many years before you have something to look at if ever. If you rush to form branches, it will look way too contrived and if you grow it on properly (let the main branches get nice and thick before cutting again), you will lose your mind! I started one (much smaller) 20 years ago and I'm still not happy with it! For example, in the last picture, the top right hand branch could perhaps be the new leader, but to do it right, you would need to give it 10 years in the ground until it is maybe 2 or 3 inches think and the cut it down to the first node and start again. Another 5 years of free growth then you might have 2 branches to cut down. By the time you have a convincing canopy, another 20 years will be needed. So what are we up to now? 35 years. Hey 35 years goes pretty quickly these days! But by then, you won't want anything to do with it due to it's sheer size and weight.
The other option is to carve the crap out of it and form little tufts of foliage here and there but you might not be satisfied with the result. That's my way of looking at it anyway...
The best of luck!

[KIRKY]

[James93A]

Youthful enthusiasm Treeman. I'm sure we used to have some of it

Have fun with your olive while you're still young enough James.

Thank you for the words of encouragement Shibui and Peter.

I'm looking forward to it

Thanks for clarifying Treeman. I don't have as much experience as you with bonsai but I did take this olive on because of the challenge it clearly presents as you've mentioned. Having said that the material is exceptional. I'm not so sure about it taking 35 years to develop but I suppose we'll find out and when the time comes I'll let you know if I agree

I do agree that clip and grow while allowing the shoots to grow large and long in the ground would be ideal and would look fantastic however in a modern world I think we all just really want to see some nicely styled and fuller trees in a shorter amount of time when it comes to certain projects that we take on - preferably in our own lifetime and not the next owner's. I was thinking about clip and growing anyway, so time will tell what's to come for this small land mass. Thanks as well for the info on it Treeman, I would love to see your olive, is there a topic link for that fella you spoke about?

I really appreciate the interest and controversy these kinds of materials create haha, it's great to see and discuss contradicting opinions.

Youthful enthusiasm Treeman. I'm sure we used to have some of it

Have fun with your olive while you're still young enough James.

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[Max]

because it's so large and the base looks like a mountain side is it possible to make it a raft/penjing? or would having so many shohin cause die back in areas? just throwing it out there as treeman estimates a 40 yr project

[Muddy]

Now there's an idea! A big mountain with smaller trees growing on it!
Whatever you decide, be sure to post back here with an update in 30 years

[Nate.bonsai]

The second pic seems to present the better front - more natural (albeit very extreme) taper.

I agree that to do it perfectly, it will take a lifetime. However, the reality is that not many trees at all are done perfectly and there is always a compromise. Regardless, I have no doubt that you can produce something exceptional which gives prime focus to the most distinctive element of this tree, which is obviously its massive trunk!


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[Pearcy001]

If you think it's worth it, why not spend 40 years developing it? I'm a believer in taking the time to grow it right, but I also buy small trees

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[treeman]

Let's take the discussion a bit further.

Below are some examples of ancient natural olives and bonsai olives.

The kind of image I had in mind was something like the tree below.
Obviously this would take the longest time to reproduce but to me it's the best. You would need to grow the branches for many years to have their thickness (and just as importantly, the bark) balance with the trunk.

olive4.JPG

Another fine specimen.. Kind of half way between the 2 extremes.

olive1.JPG

The next one represents a very old tree which has completely died back and re-sprouted further down. It's something olives can do and seems to keep them going almost forever.
This is also a possiblility but the huge disparity between the ages of the trunk and the branches does not give a very satisfying product in a bonsai which is made for viewing as opposed to an historically important relic which should be preserved. The problem with James's tree is that it has been cut off flat on top. More on that later.....

olive3.JPG

The tree below is Walter Pall's. I presume he is trying to emulate the kind of relic tree above. However this is better material as the die back looks and probably is natural.

olive2.JPG

Here is a magnificent old trunk which unfortunately has been rushed and forced to conform to a standard modern Japanese Juniper type image. A real pity I think and in my mind no thought whatsoever given.
This would be the absolute last thing I would pursue. (but I would kill for that trunk!)

olive5.JPG