That's it i give up no more japanese maples, i just can't seem to keep them alive for more then a year.
Different soil mixes, sun, partial shade, full shade, mostly protected from wind, lots or water, some water, no water!
My take it is am doing something wrong and keeping them alive in perth's summer is wayyy too hard!
This one went from struggling as it warmed up to fried in 1 day, and its been slowly dying back...
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The black marks on the trunks and the symptoms you've described are very much like something that occasionally happens here. I think it is a fungal disease, probably starting in the roots. Occasionally I have had one recover after keeping it on the dry side for a while but I have also lost quite a few this way.
Although they are not normally as sensitive as you have found I don't recommend them as suitable for beginners. Try something a bit easier and come back to Japanese maples when you have refined your skills.
I have had that problem here also and have a theory That exact problem began here and i lost a couple so i put the rest in the ground in a prepared hole with good soil. I fed and mulched them and after a year or so they appear to be recovering and growing strongly. I cut back to the dead bits and it produced some new branches which died back but they now appear on the road to recovery. I think once they get the infection and you leave them in the pot the root system has nowhere to go to recover. If the roots can run the tree has the chance of recovery. New fibrous roots are the solution and i have some new maples to beautify the place, i won't put them back in a pot.
"Advice is rarely welcome, and the one's who need it the most welcome it the least"
I have had this happen to trees in the ground. Growing happily for ten years or more. Then one day they don't look happy, next week or two they are dead no rhym or reason so don't be discouraged. Try your hand at Trident Maples they are more forgiving and will take more knocking about. Also just one comment with what I did see on your picture cover your roots when you pot younger trees. Especially if your area is more on the hot side.
Cheers
Kirky
As shibui mentioned, this is caused by a root rot disease. Not exactly fungi but oomycetes like Phythium and Phytophthora. (They are water borne - thrive in wet conditions) Besides ''fungicides'' especially developed to control them (fongarid, banrot and others), the best way to guard against these in by having a thriving population of competing microbes which attack these organisms and use them for food. This is where well matured organic components come in. Composted pine bark will have this inhibitive property for a number of weeks, after that the population will decline but hopefully by then most of the oomyycetes will have been destroyed (if they are there in the first place). Contamination can come from just about anywhere. (soil, tank water, dirty pots, uncomposted media, inorganic media of any kind - except new perlite - sand, scoria, decomposed granite etc etc). So incorporating at least 10% of well matured organic composted material will go a long way to prevent this problem. You can even use euci mulch which has been composted for at least 6 weeks. This is rather easy to do. Empty a bag on clean concrete or plastic, water in a handful of dissolved urea and some dolomite, and return to the bag with some holes punched into the side. There will be an explosion of beneficial microbes. After 6 or preferably 8 weeks you can use it. Another way you can control these diseases in by solarisation. (leave your moist mix in a plastic bag in the sun for a month)
The best way of course is to use products which you know to be disease free. The only off the shelf thing is potting mix from a good company. Everything else is a risk. I highly recommend using organic fertilizers regularly as well as these are full of beneficial microbes. I have only ever lost 1 JM to root rot that I remember. I use commercial potting mix as a base which is hot composted for a number of weeks. It's also worth remembering that Japanese Maples DO NOT need to be constantly wet. They are surprisingly dry tolerant. You will hardly ever see wilting on them (within reason). Using a so-called drainage layer in a bonsai pot helps with root aeration too.
Feeding too much will easily destroy root tips. When they are gone it's an open door for the diseases. Feed these maples weakly but often and use a coarse ''live'' mix or at least a ''clean mix''. Water only when they need it, and you should have no further troubles.
I spoke to Ray Nesci about my troubles with them. I even bought a few into his nursery a few years back and he took a look for a bit and gave it back :
"Root rot! It wont survive". But he did recommend Ridrot if I wanted to give it a whirl regardless.
He actually gave me the best advice which was... he took me around to his Japanese maples and showed me them. He showed me the ones that were in need of watering. It certainly opened my eyes. I was simply over-watering them which will start the rot. But yes, I was educated by how far he happily lets his maples go before watering them again. Of course, a secondary problem can be poor drainage that retains water too long.
Obviously maples love full sun and not to be over-watered. Depending on everyones area and climate I guess you have to water appropriately. Even with half day sun, once I took his advice I stopped losing them.
The problem is that I generally blanket water all my stock. I have far too many to water individually and I realize this is a problem. For this reason, the stock that are susceptible to over-watering, I place in a different area away from the main sprinklers. Also remember that if you defoliate your maples for whatever reason, then they are going to require much less watering until the new growth forms. Ditto over the dormant months. Japanese maples can be so elegant, but they are by far the most susceptible material to root rot that I've ever grown.
Rory I style Bonsai naturally, just as they would appear in the wild.
Central Coast, NSW
Bonsai: Casuarina Leptospermum Banksia Phebalium Baeckea Melalueca Ficus
I lost a number of large old maples, regularly one or two a year, until I started dosing preventatively with Fongarid in autumn and winter. Too late once you see the leaves wilt - nothing will bring them back. I had no trouble growing them on in large pots or the ground, but they seem to become vulnerable in bonsai pots.
Bit of reading tonight while trying to ID a pest for my maple and I read this about girdling roots. Although it may not be what's going on with your tree I thought it could be of interest to some who have said they struggle growing them in pots.
"Girdling Roots: If a tree shows symptoms of poor vigor such as small leaves, death of small limbs, top dieback or leaf scorch, the condition could be due to girdling roots. This problem occurs when a root entwines around another large root or the base of the tree and prevents or hinders water and nutrient movement. Often girdling roots occur below ground level, indicated by a lack of root flare at the base of the trunk."
Just thought some may find it of interest.
Cheers,
Pearcy.
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Last edited by Pearcy001 on November 27th, 2016, 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks for the encouragement, i've got a number of tridents which funny enough happened to be next to this one, they are growing happily and have put on at least a meter in height this spring as i'm growing them out, same as the black pines and everything else....
Only thing i can try is change the mix to a more open mix like the black pines i guess!
Glad i am not the only person.....makes me feel not as bad!
I'm not too fussed about losing this one it had a terrible graft junction, but i wanted to use it to try and air layer it.
I've had the same issue in the ground also but what looked to be a different issue and it was simply being too exposed and not being established roots wise enough to support itself through a very hot summer with strong winds.
One thing i have noticed is in Perth at least your going to get leaf issues no matter what but it seems to be more the wind then just the heat. I think some people in this thread have confirmed as such in other threads.
This one certainly looks to be more fungal, it's almost certainly too late to save now. Maybe i need to get a couple of landscape style JM ground plant them in the ground to simply learn more about them, or get a few smaller ones and really experiment with different mixes / exposure / watering methods.
Does anyone have a advice on what mix they like?
What should the soil look like i know this would vary but how dry can it get?
@Rory i also blanket water but as this was next to the black pines / tridents and they are fine i was assuming it be fine! i guess not! Def and more open mix next time.
I'm certainly not having these issues with any of my black pines which also like dry feet.....
That exact problem began here and i lost a couple so i put the rest in the ground in a prepared hole with good soil. I fed and mulched them and after a year or so they appear to be recovering and growing strongly. I cut back to the dead bits and it produced some new branches which died back but they now appear on the road to recovery. I think once they get the infection and you leave them in the pot the root system has nowhere to go to recover. If the roots can run the tree has the chance of recovery. New fibrous roots are the solution and i have some new maples to beautify the place, i won't put them back in a pot.
so don't be discouraged. Try your hand at Trident Maples they are more forgiving and will take more knocking about. Also just one comment with what I did see on your picture cover your roots when you pot younger trees. Especially if your area is more on the hot side.
