Chunky Hokkaido Elm - where's the front?

[Thymetraveller]

hokk1.jpg

This was birthday present from my wonderful daughter - who's a lucky dad then?
Hokkaido Elm from Ray Nesci. It's one of his Strong ones that doesn't mind a bit of wire.
It's a sturdy beast and I'm really looking forward to working on it, but I am wavering over where the front is. I'd like yo know what people think!
Here's a look round:

hokk1.jpg

hokk2.jpg

hokk3.jpg

hokk5.jpg

Here's what I think is the front:

hokk6.jpg

But it's got a chuffing great branch sticking straight out of it...

hokk7.jpg

Should I chop it off, or do people think I should work with a different front?
Also, while you're here, how much should I trim it back for the winter?

[Jarad]

Hey mate,

That's a beast of a Hokkaido. I don't have any real styling tips for you, just regular tips.

Don't let it dry out completely. It will cause them to drop all of their leaves, so it's best to keep them a little damp.

They are slow growers, so before you remove any branches make sure you want to remove it. And when you want to remove a decent size branch (around 1cm thick), consider air layering it.

::EDIT::
Ray Nesci is where I got mine from too.

[Daluke]

I like your suggested front.

[Jarad]

I also like "Hokk3" as the front as there is no reverse taper and the trunk has a bit of a curve.

[melbrackstone]

I'd be tempted to use it as a stock plant and do some air layers of the bits where the length of trunk/branch is too long and straight.

hokk60.jpg

Then when you've gotten enough bits off it to make a forest, bring it back to the trunk and just that chuffing great branch... planted at an angle so the branch becomes the new leader.....
apologies for the poor quality virt...

hokk600.jpg

Drastic, I know...

[shibui]

I find it very difficult to style a tree with only 2d photos. When you can see in 3D you can make informed decisions including whether to tilt the trunk or not.

From the photo you have selected it looks like you are after a broom style tree. If that's the case, go ahead and remove the eye poking branch then cut all the remaining branching back by at least 1/2. Hokkaido don't ramify much unless you force them. A technical problem is that broom style traditionally has a straight, vertical main trunk.

I actually like Jarad's suggestion - looking to an informal upright tree taking advantage of the low bend in the trunk. Would require removal of the thicker of the 2 main trunks I think but difficult to visualise from just 2d pics.

[kcpoole]

I thought maybe leave a bit more on and create a small Informal.
Based on your 3rd pic

Ken

[Thymetraveller]

Some great perspectives and ideas here; thanks everyone!
Melbrackstone, I can see where you are going and I like it, but I suspect my wonderful daughter would be airlayering limbs off me if I did that to the tree she gave me!

The informal Upright idea appeals...
Much to think about!
Thanks again everyone!!

[melbrackstone]

Melbrackstone, I can see where you are going and I like it, but I suspect my wonderful daughter would be airlayering limbs off me if I did that to the tree she gave me!

Yes I guess I can see her point of view.

Good luck with whatever you do with it.

[shibui]

Thanks for doing the virt Ken. I think that's pretty close to what I was trying to describe above.

[kcpoole]

Thanks for doing the virt Ken. I think that's pretty close to what I was trying to describe above.

Thanks, thought so

With any stock, the recommendations and advice we give needs to be given with thought to the "bonsai age" and learning stage of the OP.
for you and I, we may well take a route similar to Mel's virt, where we are looking for the best tree possible and do not mind the time that might take.
A more novice artist might well prefer to keep more of the original stock and make a more "finished " tree in much less time

ps just remember with Hokkaido Elm, the branches are quite brittle so be careful when applying wire as it ieas to break the smaller branches off

Ken

[Thymetraveller]

Ken, that's absolutely spot on!

Baby steps down the Bonsai path results are a major focus, and patience is a lesson acquired sloooooowly.

I have some lovely trees in development and leaving them alone can be the biggest challenge in this field....it reminds me of music, where what you don't play is often as, or more important than what you do play.

In this case, we have a third, non-bonsai-focussed person I the equation too.

This forum is a great source of advice and support!

Thanks again, folks!

Gareth

[Bonsaiforest]

[quote="melbrackstone"]I'd be tempted to use it as a stock plant and do some air layers of the bits where the length of trunk/branch is too long and straight.


Don't mean to hijack this post...but I also have a Hokkaido that I picked up from Nesci's. Ray told me that they are really slow growers. So would that mean that it would take a really long time for new roots to form...? enough so that layer can be removed safely. Also how many layers can be carried out at the same time...?

[kcpoole]

Ray told me that they are really slow growers. So would that mean that it would take a really long time for new roots to form...? enough so that layer can be removed safely. Also how many layers can be carried out at the same time...?

They layer quite quickly like most elms.
you can put on as many as you like, so long as every layer has branching and foliage above each layer

Ken

[shibui]

Hokkaidos root just as quickly as other Chinese elms. You should have plenty of roots to remove layers by mid - late summer most years.Normal rules for layering as Ken pointed out but just be a bit careful when doing your layers. Even Ray's 'strong' Hokkaido is still quite brittle and you'll often end up with the layered parts in one hand and the tree in another while trying to ringbark or tie the plastic on.

Cuttings are easy to strike. If you put in cuttings now they should have good roots by October or November.
Even quite large cuttings will root well. Last year a 2cm thick branch came off my stock tree so I put it in as a cutting and it is growing well now.

Root cuttings also grow easily from Hokkaido elm and are a good source of nicely shaped material.

Above ground growth is slow because this variety is a genetic dwarf. It is full grown at around 60cm tall. Taking 10 years to get to full size is not unreasonable? That's around 6cm per year where a full sized elm might grow 50 - 90 cm per year.

In my experience Hokkaido elm does not do well in deep shade. I've lost quite a few strong cuttings that were kept under the benches in shaded areas. Give them plenty of light to get best growth.