Inoculating

[treeman]

Thanks Kevin

That makes sense. Would there be an advantage in feeding trees a starch like water from maybe soaked rice or something similar.

Treeman does your fert cake recipe serve more than the benefit of provide the plant nutrient. I assume the molasses would feed the mycorrhizal growth as well?

Squizz

I don't know if there would be much in the way of sugars left after fermentation Squizz. Actually, if you want good myco development, you want the plant to provide the sugar to it. This is the difference between mycorrhiza and other fungi. The more sugar the plant provides the more myco development and the less you need to fertilize. It's a bit of a balancing act. Certainly myco plants are always healthier than non myco plants. If you look at a pine (for example) which is not doing so well due to too much water or fert, you usually see the root system devoid of myco growth. There is one problem with mycorrhizae though; heavy mycelium growth can make the root ball water repellent! The roots dry out without you realizing, start to die and the fungus then also dies. You need to know what going on under the surface at all times!

[squizzy]

Thanks mike.

Yes the reason I got onto this whole thing is there was a pot of jbp seedlings I had let go for a few years but I could notice a definite difference in growth( thicker,stronger, greener etc) and when I pulled them out of the pot they were full of the white webbed fungus. I thought how can I get this in the other pots and powering in the garden?

I have no doubt so far it's something that will definitely benefit.

One more question. Is the fungus in the line the same as what I need for all plants or does each plant have its own specific strain?

Squizz

[treeman]

Thanks mike.

Yes the reason I got onto this whole thing is there was a pot of jbp seedlings I had let go for a few years but I could notice a definite difference in growth( thicker,stronger, greener etc) and when I pulled them out of the pot they were full of the white webbed fungus. I thought how can I get this in the other pots and powering in the garden?

I have no doubt so far it's something that will definitely benefit.

One more question. Is the fungus in the line the same as what I need for all plants or does each plant have its own specific strain?

Squizz

It depends. Some plants like some orchids must have one particular species. Some plants can use a number of different species alone or together. Many myco species can infect a wide range of plants. I have never purchased it. It usually just appears spontaneously. I think the air if full of spores from countless species of mycos. It's just a matter of time before they find the roots.

[CraigM]

Thanks, will keep posted on the outcome.

[squizzy]

So I have been asking about what is available in general nursery and landscape supplies with regards to inoculants and it slim pickings. I have managed to get 2 products but I am questioning there organic base as they both seem to be from chemical fert manufacturers.

Gogo juice is number 1 and troforte is number 2

The both claim to supply billions of microbes.

I was thinking of trailing some Gogo juice today and it got me thinking about the effect of chlorinated water on these solutions or more specifically the effect on the microbes. Does anyone have a thought or opinion on this? I suspect it cant be great for microbes?

Squizz.

[Myco_Guy]

Thought I might chime in on the mycorrhizal aspect of this. Having done research on native seedlings, I did find there was more of an effect of inoculation in some species than others.
For practical home application (this is really for natives but might work for some generalist exotics - who knows?) just get some soil from near the roots of established native vegetation, preferably from your recipient species, and give it a stir through your choice of potting mix. Probably the simplest way to get the right mycorrhize, as they can be very species specific

[Kevin]

So I have been asking about what is available in general nursery and landscape supplies with regards to inoculants and it slim pickings. I have managed to get 2 products but I am questioning there organic base as they both seem to be from chemical fert manufacturers.

Gogo juice is number 1 and troforte is number 2

The both claim to supply billions of microbes.

I was thinking of trailing some Gogo juice today and it got me thinking about the effect of chlorinated water on these solutions or more specifically the effect on the microbes. Does anyone have a thought or opinion on this? I suspect it cant be great for microbes?

Squizz.

Hello Squizz,

Sorry again as i haven't heard of either product. Although, i am well versed in Australian Consumer Laws - if the products didn't contain or have sufficient scientifically proven evidence supporting their products - the Australian Government or ACCC wouldn't allow their sales within Australia. So have faith in the products.

This is all reasonably new to me too - like you, i'm trying to absorb as much as i can hence my continual reading and experimenting. Unfortunately, my career never ventured into the Nursery Industries, i have always been on the construction, maintenance and management side of Horticulture.

Chlorinated water / tap water in general - DO NOT USE. Everything i have read including comments from Treeman (somewhere, if not here), Mycorrhizae are very sensitive to many chemicals especially Phosphorous. Also referenced repeatedly is Mycorrhizae and their intolerance to high Chlorine levels, which you have obviously read too. A rainwater tank has been added to my long term (save hard) shopping list, rainwater is also repeatedly referenced for Bonsai, which now makes greater sense as to why.

HOWEVER, many references refer to - "if you must use tap water - LET IT STAND for several days prior to use". Which i have done when preparing my products for application and immediately following for a day or two when watering - THIS HAS WORKED for me. Witnessed easily within weeks of applying - an incredible boost to my plants all round well-being.

I made some time this morning and watched several YouTubes from your link - thanks, they were very refreshing and plain english compared to my past readings. These short doco's and also Myco_Guy earlier post reinforced what i had been thinking and actually begun several days ago - Brewing my own Myco's - just like beer, actually almost identical.

Your earlier questions and conversations with Mike really got me thinking and recollecting from my own experiences - i must say it has been a long while since i have seen the Mycelium growth. Thank-you Mike for this comment too:

There is one problem with mycorrhizae though; heavy mycelium growth can make the root ball water repellent!

I also want to apologise for some links i had posted, not being the intended ones. This link from the Australian National Herbarium was one of my first introductions and also inspired me to knowledge up in this area for the sack of my plants, also very plain english:

https://www.anbg.gov.au/fungi/mycorrhiza.html

Finally Squizz - where did you source your JBP seedlings? Were they seeds? If so, it's highly likely they were inoculated with a fungi prior - can you contact them for details of their fungi? Inoculating seeds is something i am also experimenting with at the moment. I had to pack up my research this morning due to work just as i thought i was getting extremely close to the species of fungi - Mycorrhiza which Pinus thunbergii or Pinaceae require. One scientific study identified 95% of the total fungi present being CENOCOCCUM GEOPHILUM.

Sorry, but that may be as close as i get - if i do come across anything more i will let you know.

Kevin

[squizzy]

Hi myco guy.

Yes I have noticed that in some of the YouTube videos. I am thinking that will work well for some native species I have but I will struggle when it comes to the exotics to find some well establish jbp groves or maple groves to get some natural soil from.

Kevin. Thanks again for a very informative reply. I thought as such with the chlorine.

Yes the you tube videos are somewhat raw but seem to make sense.

I will just have to trust the Australian consumer laws I guess. I'm a sceptic but that's my hang up.

The jbp seeds are collected from my own stock or trees in parks I have found. Maybe the park trees are a good place to search for some soil?

Thanks again for the replies. I am getting a much better understanding of it.

Squizz

[Kevin]

Hello Squizz,

Yes the you tube videos are somewhat raw but seem to make sense.
Squizz

I thought these were great. Normal people from varied locations across the globe, obviously all experienced on how beneficial Mycorrhizal Fungi is to their plants and their passions in reproducing / saving / recycling the Fungi for future crops i thought was very inspiring. Also helpful were their varying techniques.

For the record my earlier comment - "Brewing my own Myco's - just like beer, actually almost identical" - This does not work, as Mike said which i knew: 1. Myco's will not grow / reproduce when fed raw sugar and kept warm. 2. Myco's require establishment upon the roots of a host plant, before they are capable of receiving sugars via the plant. Well that's what the academics have documented. I had a tub of water resting (dechlorinating) in which i added Seasol, Sphagnum moss and some of my product of Mycorrhizae, which is for several Air Layers i am about to do and after watching those YouTubes i decided to add a heap of raw sugar as an experiment - nothing, but hopefully shouldn't affect my Air Layers as long as it's sealed to keep the Ants out.

I will just have to trust the Australian consumer laws I guess. I'm a sceptic but that's my hang up.
Squizz

Me too. I hate how many Horticultural / Agricultural products, for example: Seasol and Gogo Juice (from memory) do not / will not provide to the consumer an itemised list detailing the products active ingredients. I believe these products to be no different from other Fertilisers / Chemicals which by law must list their active ingredients and quantities.

Maybe the park trees are a good place to search for some soil?
Squizz

That's where i would be heading. You only need a little of the soil and roots from the host plant species. The recommended application rate of a commercial Mycorrhizal Fungi is 30g / 50 litres, this equates to approximately 1 tablespoon of Mycorrhizae per 2 bags of potting mix (my quick cal's). The best thing about Mycorrhizae is - once attained and managed correctly (sooo easy) you will always have it as the Fungi multiples rapidly. Just remember - fresh is always best and once attained keep it sealed, DRY and away from heat and cold (room temperature).

Specific research published by The South Australian Government relating to their 'Wheat Belt' states:

"Where no plants are present the Fungi exist within either the dead roots or soil as spores and fine threads (Hyphae). These spores and hyphae act as infective units when the plants grow (the next crop). These infective units survive well in soils that are dry, even at fairly high and cold temperatures. When the soil is rewetted, the infective units germinate and search for new plant roots to colonise to obtain sugars. Beginning the symbiosis of the next cycle. If no plants germinate and therefore no roots for the Fungi, the Fungi dies, depleting the Mycorrhizal Fungi and further inoculation is required."

I have had 2 good Myco events occur at home over the past couple of days:

1. I have been trying to germinate / propagate Eucalyptus seeds for approximately 2 months without success until the intervention of the Myco Fungi i had purchased. My third batch of seeds - sown on the 17 March with the soil inoculated has just popped 2 seedlings. Although i cannot claim specifically it was due to the inoculant of Trichoderma spp.
2. While randomly pulling a weed yesterday from the garden and as usual raising the weed to 'smack' upon the ground to release the soil from the roots i noticed the white Mycelium Hyphae. No 'smacking' of the root ball on this occasion - straight into a sealed container for my next potted plant (or to quote from the movie The Castle "straight to the pool room"). I did comment earlier that i hadn't seen this for some time - well, i wasn't looking either.

Anyway, good luck with your products. Looking forward to reading how they perform for you Squizz. Or any other members experiences with Mycorrhizal Fungi.

Thank-you,

Kevin

[treeman]

Thank-you Mike for this comment too:

There is one problem with mycorrhizae though; heavy mycelium growth can make the root ball water repellent!

Here's what I mean about heavy mycelium growth!
I've been repotting my JW pines the last couple of days. This is the kind of thing I meant.

001.JPG

002.JPG

They say to repot white pines every 3 to 5 years. Well this is after 2 and I'm pretty sure if I left it another year I would end up with root problems due to the lower filtration rate of water and ESPECIALLY air..
So this kind of growth is good, in that the tree is healthy, but if left to continue it ends up hurting the same tree!!

[Black Knight]

Hi squizzy,
You are a landscaper, try looking under some old pine mulch around your jobs.
Regards,
Black Knight

[EJZ]

Hi Squizzy,

the only ferts I use on my pines are seamungus pellets and Charlie Carp.
I always have a white cotton wool looking substance all over the roots and soil when repotting.
my advise is to keep it simple

[Kevin]

Thank-you,

These last few posts are priceless.
The benefits to plants by the MICROFLORA contained within certain fertilisers is SIMPLY outstanding.
Growers of Bonsai deserve all the help we can get.
If you have this white webbing as shown by Treeman above within your Bonsai pots, please heed his wisdom with the advice he supplied (thank-you for ALL your input Mike - same issues with confinement of the hyphae ???) AND

We would love to know the name of the product you use.

In EJZs' post above Eugene mentioned his fertiliser - "seamungus pellets". This organic fertiliser is by NEUTROG, makers of several products including GOGO JUICE. Both containing beneficial microflora.

A small, informative and comprehensive article attached for your benefit.

http://neutrog.com.au/pdf-viewer/index/ ... cle-010915

Thanks again.

P.S. - It is SO SIMPLE if we have the knowledge and what we can purchase easily. My inoculant is an agricultural product and not marketed to the home gardener.

Kevin

[treeman]

(thank-you for ALL your input Mike - same issues with confinement of the hyphae ???) AND

We would love to know the name of the product you use.

Hi Kevin,
In 2000 I was able to get a batch of Japanese White pine seeds (In fact it was the last lot before the import ban). Anyway, I sowed them in Sept of that year into a p/mix sand mixture. They germinated quite well but from what I could see after 12 months they had still not developed a myco association. (even if you cannot see the mycelium you can usually tell by looking for short club-like roots here and there) At the time I was concerned that this species required a specific fungus. I planted a few seedlings into the ground where Eucs and other things were growing and low and behold they all became inoculated within 2 months. They have had it ever since. Now I just transfer the fungus from one pot to the next. It seems you can use mychorrizae from any pine species as well as many Eucalyptus and probably all kinds of other things. For example I have some birch trees in the garden which have a species with brown mushrooms and another with the famous Amanita muscaria!

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=aman ... 8Q_AUIBigB
This species will form associations with birch and pine!
http://www.kew.org/science-conservation ... fly-agaric