Corky bark chinese elm die back...ARRGGHH!!!!

[DavidN]

Hi all
I'm having major problems this year with my corky bark chinese elms and seiju elms with large amounts of branch dieback and in one bonsai losing two trunks from a clump group. As the trees wake up from winter I have noticed the die back severity. I have only posted one of the trees below. This is a chinese elm but has corky bark. Never had a problem with dieback on this one before. Could it be the really hot summer we had in Melbourne last season or some reason to explain the die back. Currently I believe it to be the climate as pretty much all the seiju and corky bark elms have suffered. It is very frustrating as the trees have really started to ramifiy their branches structure and this mean years have been on developing these trees.

Here is one of the trees affected. Had it for the last 6 years without any issues. This year the top died right back and so did a large back branch.

David

[bodhidharma]

Hmmm..last year and the year before i had a problem with elm leaf beetle and when my trees came out of dormancy i had dieback. a couple even died. Might have to do an inspection after they leaf out. They have been pretty persistent. Confidor is the answer. hope this helps

[Jester]

Hi David, if it IS Elm leaf beetle I found a page on the web for you that will give you some info: www.global-garden.com.au/burnley/mar00dte.htm[url][/url]

Hope your elms get better mate!

[DavidN]

Thanks for the link. I remember these trees were healthy last year and no signs of damage as indicated by what the beetle does.
Thanks anyway.

DavidN

[alpineart]

Hi David from my personal experience elm leaf beetle won"t attack chinese elms .I have American , English and Chinese Elms and the only issue i have ever had is Curl grubs , Garden Worms or Wet Feet relating Chinese Elms with winter die-back .Most certainly Elm leaf beetle will attack American , English and most European elms however they are not active until Late Spring early Summer . I would be looking underground .Cheers

[Jester]

Hi Dave, AlpineArt may have a point with wet feet. I had a situation where I moved to a flat a while ago and my (Refer photo - before dieback) elm was in fact very similar to yours in size and design. I made the mistake of putting it on my balcony. Problem was, the balcony panels were made of thick glass which ofcourse acted like opne big magnifying glass. It severly damaged the tree and I ended uup with a similar siutation to your tree. When I moved out of there I took it out of the training pot and into a the pot youe see in the photo. Unfortunately the water did not drain from here very well and added to that was the fact that it was not in a sunny spot. To cut a long story short, the tree's condition did not improve so the tree has been sick like this for about 3 years. I am just wondering, did you move it next to glass or near some unnatural source of heat? John

[DavidN]

All my trees are in full sun open to the elements all year round. If anything I keep them on the slightly drier side rather than wetter. I haven't given up hope on the other few elms but I'll see how the weeks progress.

Thanks for the feedback so far.

David

[alpineart]

All my trees are in full sun open to the elements all year round. If anything I keep them on the slightly drier side rather than wetter. I haven't given up hope on the other few elms but I'll see how the weeks progress.

Thanks for the feedback so far.

David

Hi David , have you or do you regularly plunge bath you trees {submerge} nitrogen poisoning will have a similar effect on any tree .I regularly bath my trees up to 8 times per year including winter . If its not pests its poison.Cheers

[Bretts]

Some others have had this problem with Seiju elm and that Hoki one. I was told that even though I had not experienced it don't believe it won't when I had more ramified branches. Walter Pall was among the ones having trouble. He believed that they where a weak tree and a sport that would not survive in the real world.
Brent waltson believes all troubles can be solved by giving them plenty of sun. I started to wonder if Walter Pall had enough sun for them. It seems like you have given them plenty of sun.
There is one thing I was afraid of this year which was information that stated Pots in the sun can get so hot that roots start to die back Not an issue to start with as the tree grows more but apparently then during winter these dead roots rot and cause soil rot.

I am not a believer of the submerging pots causes salt buildup Alpine. I think it flushes the pot out even more that watering from above. I only use that method on a regular basis during winter with my tropicals though. The kitchen sink works great

[anttal63]

hey david sorry to hear this! have you repotted these trees this year? how did you find the soil conditions? were there any grubs in the soil?

[DavidN]

I repot all my elms every year and soil condition and roots looked healthy to me. Roots always fill the pot every year. I only water trees from above and never submerge. Its got me!!

[alpineart]

I repot all my elms every year and soil condition and roots looked healthy to me. Roots always fill the pot every year. I only water trees from above and never submerge. Its got me!!

Plunging trees into a bath does several positives for the tree.Firstly it flushes the nitrogen out of the soil ,Nitrogen doesn't get flushed out during normal watering through the bottom as it is a gas .Secondly if left in the bath until all bubbles subside ie at least 10-15 minutes it saturates the soil around the root-ball .This is the first area to dry out as the tree grows . Watering from the top doesn't always reach this area and you have drying and dieing effect .Thirdly when you remove the pot from the bath it draws into the soil fresh oxygen .Hope this info helps .Cheers

[pjkatich]

David,

Welcome to the club.

This is a problem that I have been battling on for quite a while. There seems to be many opinions regarding this die back issue but not many facts. I have been involved in several on-line discussions regarding the die back issues with the Seiju and Hokkaido elm cultivars including the one that Brett referred to in his reply. Unfortunately, nothing was ever resolved in any of these discussions.

From my personal experience, more sun is not the answer. I live in Northeast, Florida, USA where sunshine is quite abundant. At one point, I also thought the problem could be associated to "wet feet". In particular, I focused for a while on the fact that the plants might not like to be cold and wet. Unfortunately, this theory did not pan out either.

Here is a current photo of one of my Seiju elms.

IMG_0009b.jpg

This one was grown from a cutting struck in 1995.

For me, this issue has been extremely frustrating. There does not seem to be any consistent pattern to the yearly die back. On a yearly basis, it does not affect every one of my Seiju elms. Some years, there is very little die back. Some years the die back is devastating, very much like the example your showed.

If you would, please describe in a little more detail what you experience when your plants are coming out of dormancy.

The dinner bell is ringing so I have to go now.

Cheers,
Paul

[LLK]

A distressing business, that elm die back. My own elms have been OK so far (touching wood), although an English elm had a bad case of bark necrosis a few years back. This is a fungus infection and that brings me to suspecting that the die back could be caused by a fungus as well. So far, no-one has mentioned preventative spraying in Winter. It would be interesting to know if this was done, in areas where die back has occurred and recurred.

When I moved out of there I took it out of the training pot and into a the pot youe see in the photo. Unfortunately the water did not drain from here very well (...)

Jester,
Improper draining is a nuisance, that's for sure. If your soil mix is all that it should be and you are still not happy with the drainage, try placing a wick in one of the drainage holes, letting about 10 cm hang below the pot. It will absorb excess moisture in the bottom of the pot and drain it off. A wide strip of artificial shammy like one uses for cleaning works quite well.

LLK