slow release and liquid ferts

[dibly_w]

Hey people , just had a thought the other day , is it bad or result in over feeding if you use a slow release fert and liquid ferts together during growing season ? (At the recommended dosages of course )
Also are there any major retailers in australia that stock an equally balanced fert ie 10/10/10 ?
Thanks

[Elmar]

I use both at the same time... Nothing has died from that...


Cheers
Elmar

[Ryceman3]

I use both at the same time... Nothing has died from that...


Cheers
Elmar

Ditto.
Not sure if it is species related or not, but doesn't seem to hurt Chinese Elms, Japanese Maples or any of the native species that I have.

[dibly_w]

Thats awesome thanks guys .

[dansai]

What do you mean by slow release fertiliser? And what liquid fert are you referring to?

Slow release fertilisers are things like manures and fertiliser cakes made from seed meals etc. These release fertiliser over a period of weeks usually when watered and are generally organic in origin. Controlled release fertilisers are the little balls that release fert over a specified period of time like 3, 6, 9 or 12 months. These are synthetic (man made) salts made from the nutrients needed by plants. You can usually apply these at higher rates than recommended if you use a well draining mix and water often.

If you are using slow release fert of organic origin and organic liquid fert is it highly unlikely to be detrimental even if used at much higher rates than recommended as long as you are using a free draining mix. In fact, while your plants are in development stages it may be beneficial to feed heavily to increase growth rates.

If you are using controlled released fertiliser and liquid fertiliser of synthetic origins you may be increasing the salt levels in the potting mix where by it will endanger the health of you plants. If this is the case, change to an organic liquid feed and ensure you give a really good flush with plain water atleast once a week to remove any salts that may have built up.

[dansai]

Also are there any major retailers in australia that stock an equally balanced fert ie 10/10/10 ?

It is important to understand that a 10/10/10 is not necessarily a balanced fert. All plants need Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium in varying amounts. Some natives only need small amounts of phosphorus because they have adapted to very low amounts and have become very efficient at retrieving it from the soil. Plants from the Proteaceae family (Grevillea, Banksia) are notably examples, although some need higher levels (those from east coast rainforests). Most slow release ferts like manures, compost and the like will not have a NPK breakdown on the packets either.

There are also many other nutrients essential to plant health in varying amounts that aren't represented in the NPK ratio. In fact, NPK ratios are considered by some to be an out of date way of looking at ferts. Especially when you take into account some countries list it as a volume ratio and some as mass.

[shibui]

Several things from this thread -possible misconceptions:
1: Both slow release and soluble fertiliser recommended rates are probably pitched a bit low to allow for the inevitable punter who decides that if some is good, more will be better so adding 2 together will usually not result in overdose. Further, the suppliers probably allow for poor mix, lower watering, etc. Because we are using far more open mix than normal and watering far more than many growers nutrients leach far faster so buildup is not such an issue as for other potted plants and, we can get away with higher application rates.

2:I believe that fertiliser ratios are measured differently in different countries. 10:10:10 in USA is NOT the same as 10:10:10 in Australia as far as I am aware.

and, as dansai has pointed out, just because the numbers are equal does not mean a 'balanced' fertiliser because plants do not need all nutrients in equal quantities.

[dibly_w]

Wow dansai !! Mate thanks for sharing that wealth of information greatly appreciated! !
I was referring to the synthetic kind of ferts , as for the ratios thanks for clearing that up i was confused with that information when i originally read about it .
Its good know .
Also i have read that while organic (manures) provide good source of benefits that they may also introduce pests , have you had any issues with this ?
Sorry for all the questions whilst i have enjoyed bonsai for years im very much a beginner and always looking for better ways to take care and develop my bonsai.
Thanks again

[trident76]

Don't stress.
Just follow the directions on your package of osmocote/dynamic lifter/powerfeed and you'll be fine.

[Josh]

I tend to agree with Shibui. You would have to fertilise pretty heavy or have a really poor soil to get get a build up in your pots. Everytime I water water pours out the bottom of the pot taking left over ferts with it. Someone on here fertilises everytime they water and doesn't seem to have any issues. Companies usually allow for "dumb" who think they know better than the directions. If you simply follow the directions on packet to start with as far as strength goes you won't go wrong. Once your comfortable with it then you can play around with it. I have some trees that are pretty hungry so happy to feed them pretty heavily (stronger than on the directions) and get good growth results doing so.
One other thing. I feed ALL my trees with the same ferts. I use power feed and Charlie carp and occasionally some other fert and also use osmocote. I have natives and exotics. They all get feed with them same stuff. When feeding sensitives natives (like banksia) I feed them last and just water it down s little first.

Josh.

[shibui]

Grant Bowie did some tests on different potting mixes a few years ago. As part of the trial all plants had osmocote in the mix but he gave half of them additional soluble fertiliser. The ones with additional grew better. You can see some of the results here viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5745&hilit=fertili ... l&start=15
How much extra growth you'd get will depend on the initial rates of controlled release in the mix and the release period of it but this trial and my own observations show that controlled release fert in the mix and supplementary liquid fert gives better growth.

[dibly_w]

This site needs a "like" button ... just to let people know you appreciate them taking the time to write useful information and share their knowledge with us less knowledgeable folks

[badabing888]

Nice thread!

So would using osmocote all purpose (12 month) release (as per the instructions) , with powerfeed every 2-3 weeks do the trick? then restrict the liquid ferts over winter do the trick?

how is everyone using dynamic lifter (what quantities) for your average sized bonsai?

[shibui]

So would using osmocote all purpose (12 month) release (as per the instructions) , with powerfeed every 2-3 weeks do the trick? then restrict the liquid ferts over winter do the trick?

That is about what I do except the osmocote is 16 month release and I occasionally forget the liquid so probably every 3-4 (5) weeks for the liquid feed

how is everyone using dynamic lifter (what quantities) for your average sized bonsai?

I'm not sure there is an average sized bonsai is there Each of my bonsai also gets a few pellets (3-4 pellets per 5cm length of pot or therabouts ) on the pot every month or so. I figure that makes up for the liquid feeds I forget to do but I don't think it would be too much even if you were better organised and less forgetful than me. Training pots get a few more pellets of D.L. - maybe a tablespoon full on a 20 cm pot every 4-6 weeks. All this depends on whether you want the tree to grow a bit (more fert) or whether your aim is to restrict growth a bit trying to get shorter internodes and smaller leaves, etc (less fert)

[dibly_w]

Thanks shibui ,
im sure there are alot of good liquid ferts out there and im sure there are a great deal of opinions but i see a lot of people talk up the seasol ... ideas etc ??
Ps ... DL dynamic lifter yes ?