First black pine

[golgotha]

Noticing alot of love for black pines at the moment so i thought i'd put up a pic of one i aquired from ray nesci a few weeks ago. I'm torn between an informal upright or a semi cascade with the first left branch. Need some ideas for how to build the apex if i go the semi cascade route. Any ideas or advice would be greatly apreciated.



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[shibui]

Hi Golgotha,
Semicascade would be easily achievable by removing the trunk above the first branches. The long branch becomes the main trunk and the smaller branch on the right will be developed into the apex.
The important thing with pines is to prune regularly so you don't end up with bare branches. I'd cut all shoots back leaving just a few needles to form new buds. This will give ramification for the future.

[golgotha]

Do you mean the right hand branch directly opposite the large left one or select one of the right hand ones from the group above?

[shibui]

I mean the branch directly opposite the large branch with wire. You should try not to have any 3 way forks - they lead to thickened areas. Solution is to remove the main trunk leaving a 2 way fork then tilt the whole tree toward the left to give a slanting lower trunk, a descending main trunk (current left branch) and a rising apex (current 1st right branch). If I was clever enough to do a virt I would

[golgotha]

Nevermind the virt i know what you're getting at. I can see what you mean by the bulging at junctions some of the existing junctions have 5 branches and the trunk bulges badly.
Thanks alot for the tips. There was almost too many options here for my untrained eye.

[anttal63]

Heres mine Gol an informal upright out of the first intersection and what it will look like after a season of growing.

[golgotha]

Thanks for the virt ant, just as i was getting keen on the idea of a semi you go and plant more ideas in my head to ponder. I guess i'll just keep lookong at it for a while, decide which way to go and take it along for a hair cut at my next club meeting.

[golgotha]

I gave this guy a big chop about a year ago now and have decided on the semi cascade direction.
Will spend this yr getting the branch structure in place. I'm in no rush with this one as I Want it to turn out good and im too much of a novice to really dive in.


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[shibui]

Good start but I think you should consider 2 things now.
1. Maybe tilt the trunk a little more than indicated in the pics. As you have it looks like it is nearly vertical out of the ground. I think a cascading tree would have the trunk leaning quite a lot as it comes out of the ground given all the forces pushing the tree downward.

2. Keep the apex (upright part) well pruned. At the moment it is nearly as strong as the cascading trunk and, as the highest part, it will take most of the energy and get stronger while the cascade will get weaker. Bonsai usually look better if we see the tree as either cascading or upright. There is subconscious conflict if your mind is confused between the 2 directions so for cascade the apex should be smaller and light. If you let it grow and develop it will be thicker and stronger than the cascade which should be the dominant part.

[kcpoole]

I would consider removing that upper branch trunk entirely, and then create a new apex from the first branch along the cascade. It will have a much smaller diameter as Neil says, the upper section should not look too dominant.

Ken

[golgotha]

I'll look at taking alot off the top of the 'apex' side. Got plenty of branches at or near the 3 way junction of trunk/cascade branch/apex branch that I could pull around as a new leader for an apex. Thanks for the advice guys.

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[Neli]

Remember what Neil told you.
Cut back branches to the lowest several needles (oldest) if you want ramification. ( and you should want it) JBP does not back bud readily and if you miss this chance now, and the needles fall off, you will need to graft later.