PLEASE ADVISE ON BLACK PINE MIX

[EJZ]

Hi all,
I have taken the plunge and purchased a couple of black pines.
Now I have notice that the mix they are currently in slays moist for a long time and have been carefully watering between every 3 to 5 days.
I am planning to repot them mid-winter as I think this moisture retention may be a bit excessive.
Now after some research I am proposing to use the following mix:

25% pine bark nuggets 5mm
25% washed coarse river sand
40% diatomite (kleensorb 2-7mm)
10% zeolite 2-7mm grade

The pines are growing western Sydney Blacktown area. Can anyone please advise if this mix is suitable
I’m hoping a more open mix will give me better growth and strengthen the trees .
Would this mix also be suitable for junipers and deodara cedars posting.php?mode=post&f=12#"
All comments and opinions are appreciated especially anyone who is also growing in the same conditions.
Regards
Eugene

[Scott Roxburgh]

I'll preface this by saying that I use none of these items, but it seems like a reasonably mix

Why not try 25% pumice instead of the 25% washed coarse river sand. The CRS is just taking up space and adding weight. I have found Pumice to be great at getting air in for better root growth.

BTW, I use 1:1:1 Pumice, Scoria, Akadama for pines, basically all in development.

Edit - I also water with an automated system, twice while at work in Summer. Also think about particle size, the bigger the mix is sifted to, the more air, and more growth you'll get.

Check this one out if you haven't already:
https://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/20 ... g-a-beast/

[mtarros]

I was looking at getting the same mix of Pumice, Scoria and Akadama together.

Finding the correct grade of Scoria has proven difficult in Brisbane so far, I was just going to use something else maybe more like the mix that they use at Aichien Bonsai Garden.
https://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/20 ... g-a-beast/

[kcpoole]

I will either leave out the sand altogether, or replace with Pumice.
If you go over to get some, let me know and you can get one for me too .

Ken

[kcpoole]

I was looking at getting the same mix of Pumice, Scoria and Akadama together.

Finding the correct grade of Scoria has proven difficult in Brisbane so far, I was just going to use something else maybe more like the mix that they use at Aichien Bonsai Garden.
https://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/20 ... g-a-beast/

Apparently Bunnings here have 10mm graded scoria, which I use for the bottom of the pot layer. Sift out the smaller particles < 6mm, to use in the main mix.

Ken

[Scott Roxburgh]

I was looking at getting the same mix of Pumice, Scoria and Akadama together.

Finding the correct grade of Scoria has proven difficult in Brisbane so far, I was just going to use something else maybe more like the mix that they use at Aichien Bonsai Garden.
https://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/20 ... g-a-beast/

Apparently Bunnings here have 10mm graded scoria, which I use for the bottom of the pot layer. Sift out the smaller particles < 6mm, to use in the main mix.

Ken

You can also just leave out the scoria, and replace with more pumice.

As pumice has been easier for me to get, I tend to use more of that on the stock trees.

[mtarros]

I was thinking of replacing the scoria with L.E.C.A. (Lightweight Expanded Clay Aggregate).
You can get it in a lot of different grades too.

I'm guessing that I will need to put more akadama in the mix to stop it from drying out too quickly?
I only have the chance to water once a day.

[EJZ]

I will either leave out the sand altogether, or replace with Pumice.
If you go over to get some, let me know and you can get one for me too .

Ken

Hi Ken,

Where do you get the pumice from? How much does it cost? Do I really need it if I already have zeolite in the mix?

I’m not familiar with pumice . Does it have similar properties to zeolite/ diatomite?

Would it be an idea to increase the zeolite in the mix? maybe?

Cheers
Eugene

[treeman]

That mix is perfect. No need to cahnge anything.
Having said that, Black pines will grow in any drained mix if you can keep the mycorrhiza happy.

[kcpoole]

I will either leave out the sand altogether, or replace with Pumice.
If you go over to get some, let me know and you can get one for me too .

Ken

Hi Ken,

Where do you get the pumice from? How much does it cost? Do I really need it if I already have zeolite in the mix?

I’m not familiar with pumice . Does it have similar properties to zeolite/ diatomite?

Would it be an idea to increase the zeolite in the mix? maybe?

Cheers
Eugene

Pumice is available in Sydney from over Botany way. Scott has posted the address before so will have to search

Pumice is volcanic rock and very light. Grey in colour and usually found washed up on beaches and ladies use it to scrub their feet .
similar texture to scoria but lighter.
Excellent for opening up the mix and providing airspace.

Zeolite is a red / brown colour and very sharp, and heavy. Full of microscopic pores that retain nutrients and release them back slowly. Typically one would use a max of 25 -30% in the mix.

[shibui]

My pines grow very well in the same mix as all my other trees. I think it is just as much about matching your care to the soil you use as matching the mix to the tree and your conditions.

I have noticed that a very open mix does not necessarily dry out quicker than a less open mix perhaps because even though the open one drains well there is actually more space for water to sit when you water? Much depends on the components of the mix.
Ifyou can only water once a day I'd be a bit careful about making radical changes to your potting medium for fear of loosing everything at once - and surely you can water twice - Morning and afternoon? If you really can only water once I would advise looking into an automatic watering system to help out. Many of us have and they really are great.

[Biofusion]

I agree with Scott, but the development if michorrizal fungi will be better and happen faster, if you include something that is going to supply some
Organic matter.

Pine bark mini nuggets will do this nicely, as well as perhaps some compost or small amount of premium potting mix as well.

Worm castings also promote fungi growth and development and are great for adding it in general.

Not to say it won't develop with akadama, it is after all a semi organic component in itself in that it breaks down and is a soft clay (if not the fired version) and will support bacterial and fungal growth.

But pine bark mini nuggets and/or at least some small portion of organic material will most definitely help in the harbouring, development and proliferation of michorrizal fungi

[dandybonsai]

I have the following supplies i'm in Melbourne's South East for Pine what grades of the following items would you use....i have 5 types of Potting Mix,Blue Metal,Nuggets,Scoria,Pumice,Perlite,Vermiculite,Diatomite,coloured Mulch and Zeolite.

I should start my own post but best mix for each tree type as well?

[kcpoole]

I should start my own post but best mix for each tree type as well?

I have 1 mix (2/3 diatomite, 1/3 Zeloite), I use on all my trees except Azaleas. They are in 100% Kanuma.

My nursery / Mame bench gets the automatic system 2 times a day in summer, and all the other trees I only water 1 time a day, except on the 35+ deg summer days when I will hand water the trees in bonsai pots,

Ken

[Josh]

I have the following supplies i'm in Melbourne's South East for Pine what grades of the following items would you use....i have 5 types of Potting Mix,Blue Metal,Nuggets,Scoria,Pumice,Perlite,Vermiculite,Diatomite,coloured Mulch and Zeolite.

I should start my own post but best mix for each tree type as well?

I grow all my trees in 60% diatomite 40% pine bark. I seive to 4 sizes. Fines only use for seed raising. Small for smaller bonsai pots and using as topping when preparing trees for show. Medium for the larger bonsai pots and large I use for growing on. All my trees grow in the same mix.

Josh.