I am an idiot... Now what?

[Raymond]

So here we are, 20 May and I am still at a loss of what to make of this tree. It has returned to good health, but, it has no taper, is too tall, has bar branching and all I can see are all the things that I did wrong with it. I am desperate to turn it into a nice Bonsai. But how I really don't want to waste the trunk girth, it is bigger than a coke can near the base. I understand the base is not "traditional" but I love the gnarly roots and the shear size of it. Some style ideas would be appreciated. Carving? shari? jins? Please help

[MoGanic]

So here we are, 20 May and I am still at a loss of what to make of this tree. It has returned to good health, but, it has no taper, is too tall, has bar branching and all I can see are all the things that I did wrong with it. I am desperate to turn it into a nice Bonsai. But how I really don't want to waste the trunk girth, it is bigger than a coke can near the base. I understand the base is not "traditional" but I love the gnarly roots and the shear size of it. Some style ideas would be appreciated. Carving? shari? jins? Please help

Hi Mate,

If this was my tree, I wouldn't be doing any Shari on Jinn on it just yet.

First thing I'd do, now that it's healthy, is chop back to the bar branches. Use one bar branch to wire up slightly as the new leader, and the other bar branch to wire down slightly as the first branch. Develop remaining branches from new leader, or do thread grafts if necessary. Then, you will keep that gnarly base, improve taper, and having the two branches at the chop back site means it'll heal much quick (just make sure you seal it with cut paste). NOTE: the bar branch you use to make the first branch will need to be pruned and pinched much more than the developing branches to allow the developing branches to catch up.

Alternatively, you can just thread graft/graft as it is and make a nice formal upright. Careful root pruning can increase base flare which will aid in improving taper at the base, and the rest of the trunk can just be hidden amongst the canopy.

Up to you mate, it's really gotta be something you think will work and look good so go with what your hearts telling you.

Regards,
Mo

[Raymond]

Hi Mate,

If this was my tree, I wouldn't be doing any Shari on Jinn on it just yet.

First thing I'd do, now that it's healthy, is chop back to the bar branches. Use one bar branch to wire up slightly as the new leader, and the other bar branch to wire down slightly as the first branch. Develop remaining branches from new leader, or do thread grafts if necessary. Then, you will keep that gnarly base, improve taper, and having the two branches at the chop back site means it'll heal much quick (just make sure you seal it with cut paste). NOTE: the bar branch you use to make the first branch will need to be pruned and pinched much more than the developing branches to allow the developing branches to catch up.

Alternatively, you can just thread graft/graft as it is and make a nice formal upright. Careful root pruning can increase base flare which will aid in improving taper at the base, and the rest of the trunk can just be hidden amongst the canopy.

Up to you mate, it's really gotta be something you think will work and look good so go with what your hearts telling you.

Regards,
Mo[/quote]
I probably should have mentioned that the bar branching you can see hides another branch at the same level on the back of the tree. I think I've read before they call that "spoked" branching
Anyway, it looks shari also...

[MoGanic]

Perhaps it may be worth simply removing the back branch?

Mo

[Raymond]

so after giving some thought to this, I have come to the following conclusions,
1) air layer the back branch, no point wasting 7 years of growth.
2) thread graft up the trunk to fill in the gaps
3) chop about 2/3rds of the way up and thread graft a new leader to create some taper

I have some nice material I can use for thread grafts. One of the ficus' I trunk chopped has about 8 new branches which are about 500mm long.
Question: if I thread them through, once they take, can I cut them and they still be used on the host tree? I don't see the point in cutting them back and wasting the growth if I can use them for thread grafts first
Question: when can this be done.
Lately I have found myself looking at my trees in a different light. Like, all of my trees can be improved, most of them really need a lot of work to get them to where they should be. I also can see the mistakes I have made from a long time ago(well about 7 years since I started). I WOULD have some really nice Bonsai if I knew about this forum way back when... I am at the stage now where I want to start getting serious about my current stock and also looking to get some new stuff started, ie, Bonsai nursery stock that I can shape and develop and some yamadori.
I would like to thank everyone who has given me advice so far, and thank those who created this amazing forum.

[MoGanic]

Hi Raymond,

Glad to hear you're getting into it! A good bonsai takes years anyway!

The best time to thread ficus is during the growing season, in the warmer months (as you'll need to defoliate the branch so that you're not trying to shove leaves through a tiny hole). The donor branch won't die after the thread graft usually, but having some shoots on it wont hurt.

Once you have the graft growing well, start to cut through the donor branch in stages to allow the stock tree to completely take over and eventually cut the donor branch completely as flush with the entry point as you can and seal again with cut paste or the like.

Good plan mate, happy to hear you're not wasting anything.

Mo


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[Neli]

As you grow in bonsai therms...you will realize that your tree is too straight and without taper...It will start irritating you, and trust me you will decide to trunk chop then. Imagine how much time you would have wasted.
This is what I would do with this tree in spring...
Second option is the blue line marked potential leaders you have...you said you want to chop 2/3 up???? No need for thread graft.
But I would seriously consider chopping it down as I marked at least.

Brokenbranch2.jpg

[Raymond]

Cheer for the advice guys and gals . Neli, from what I can gather, you're suggesting removing the left hand branch, chopping just above the bar branches, is that correct?

[Guy]

that top section has potential a s a separate plant " a faint heart never won a fair maiden"----go on -----chop chop---------------

[Neli]

Cheer for the advice guys and gals . Neli, from what I can gather, you're suggesting removing the left hand branch, chopping just above the bar branches, is that correct?

Yes! Or consider airlayering the top part for another tree in spring. There is a small branch just above the bar branches...Chop above that and use it as a new leader.
I like figs with fat branches...but your leader will be too thin in proportion to the first branch...so cut back the first branch and keep pinching it while leaving the new leader to grow free and fatten. Wire the leader.
you will this way get ramification on the first branch, and the scar of the trunk chop will heal.
I dont advise any shari or jin on figs...wood is soft and rots awayOnes the new leader is established and fattened somewhat, carve the trunk slopping from the new leader to the first branch.

[kcpoole]

I think a chop low down at the first set of branches.
Wire one of them as a new leader, and the other will become the first branch.
at the next repot, i would tilt the tree over slightly so the new leader is more skyward, and then feed heavily to develop the top.

alternatively chop low and remove all branches and start again. ( unless it is a Benji )

Ken

[Neli]

I think a chop low down at the first set of branches.
Wire one of them as a new leader, and the other will become the first branch.
at the next repot, i would tilt the tree over slightly so the new leader is more skyward, and then feed heavily to develop the top.

alternatively chop low and remove all branches and start again. ( unless it is a Benji )

Ken

Ken I like your idea better but was not sure how it will be welcomed...

[fredman]

I like it to. Two exciting new trees in the making

[Andrew Legg]

Questions:

1.) This tree has clearly been grown from a pot plant or ground tree that was taller. It was at some stage chopped. Do you know when that was?
2.) Do you have access to younger trees of the same species?

Cheerio,

Andrew

[Raymond]

Andrew,
The tree was chopped about 7 years ago, I chopped it. It was growing in a pot with about 35 others that were given to me. Back then, I didn't understand about taper and all that stuff. I was told to chop it were I wanted and start from there...Looking back, as I said earlier, I misunderstood the meaning of "where I wanted" I do have the same species growing, but not too many young ones...