Melaleuca advice

[bonscythe]

Hi all,
I was given this tree from old nursery stock a few months ago, it was heavily root bound and straight-up and down as you can see

Melaleuca 17-4-09.jpg

It had retained quite well over the winter (in comparison with some others I was given at the same time) but work needed to be done!
Now I know this isn't looking like the most appealing bonsai specimen but I need practice on other trees before I dive in and kill all the interesting ones!
Since it was covered with freshly opened buds, I thought this would be a good time to repot, so I got it out of it's pot, teased out the roots (where teased=ripped ) and trimmed them right back to a ball the size of a large fist. I prepared a 'training' pot by cutting a big pot in half and layered the bottom with 2-3cms of (5-10mm) grit then added a general soil mix (including hort. sand) to the top, with some native osmocote to boot. Watered in really well and placed in a semi-shaded morning sun position.
The next day I pruned back some thick branches on the top to balance the amount of roots I chopped the day before, applying honey to the wounds and removed all of the old disfigured leaves, leaving the multitude of freshly opened buds and decent looking older leaves.

Noughto12-8-09.jpg

BUT today I have noticed it isn't looking to healthy...I have kept the water up to it since the chop and out of extreme sun but the older leaves are turning slightly discoloured and now I'm worried...worried because I don't know enough about them to save it!
Maybe Pup or one of you excellent Melaleuca masters will have some ideas on where I've gone astray..too wet etc?
Or am I worried about nothing and it is simply the time for the old leaves to leave? ( )
Cheers for reading such a long post and bonus cheers from me if you can help me save this plant!
Pat

[Bretts]

The training pot looks more like the size of a bonsai pot. If it returns to vigor I would slip pot it into something bigger.
Usually at this piont any damage that has been done is not reversable. I am far from expert especaily with natives but I would say no direct sun. I have heard talk of sitting natives in water after repotting but I am unsure wich species this works with.
The usual important thing after repotting is shade and water only when the soil starts to dry out.
It does not look too bad in the picture maybe it is just having a hicup.
Sheesh I'm no help I will have to wait and see what others say

[bonscythe]

The pot is roughtly 2/3rds or so of it's original size...ok, I will move it back up if it lives then!
And I'll take it out of the morning sun, my back yard is no good for all day shade so I might have to adapt somehow. Thanks for the help Bretts! Much appreciated. I will take a picture of the leaves when I get a chance, i should of said before about the discolouration(s)...they're more a browny/rusty colour than yellow or pale green, if that helps!
I don't know what's normal for this species, I hope it's just a hiccup too

[Edward Scissorhand]

Observe the tree in the next few days or next few weeks without any disturbance in the shade. As Brett has already mentioned if the damage is already done then you'll just have to wait and see what happens!! It really is dependant on how you repotted the tree and how much stress and root disturbance you committed. I mean did you do it in a way where you tore every single roothair out of each root? Also I would refrain from using Osmocote during heavy rootpruning. Also how much osmocote did you use? In warmer weather the oscomote will release its nutrients some fast and some slowly acting, sometimes if you have a cluster of osmocote, the nutrients can unleash together causing its strength to be strong. I know alot of people use it during repotting and will tell you that its alright and harmless, but from my experience I have seen people scratch thier heads wondering why their tree died. To be on the safe side, I would sprinkle the osmocote fertiliser on top around a month to six weeks after repotting. I repot my melaleucas in stages to fit in a pot and not totally at one go especially if the tree is big. For example what I would do with your tree: because its a big tree I would saw a third off the bottom roots and just repot in the first year without disturbing 2/3 of the roots. No teasing out of roots or anything like that in the first year, just saw a third to half off the bottom. Then just trim any unwanted branches. In the second year, you can tease out and trim one side of the roots, but leave the other side undisturbed. The third year, you can do the other side. Having said this, most melaleucas are pretty hardy so perhaps just wait and see. Keep the tree moist and see what happens. Hope this helps, cheers Eddie
.

[bonscythe]

Hi Eddie,
I tried my best to be careful with the root mass but it was quite a tough beast and needed appropriate force to get any sort of result, I hope I wasn't too brutal!
I will definately take your advice on the osmocote, refraining for a few weeks first. I usually use half the recommended amount per plant and have been trying to mix it in the soil instead of putting it on top of the soil after potting. Might have to get some plastic pellet holders, so they don't wash straight off again
I don't have the patience issue it would appear, but as you mention was told when I got this bunch of Mel's was that they are tough and can take anything, this is proving to be anything but the case. We will see and hopefully I am just a bit anxious/paranoid
Much appreciated Eddie
- Pat

[Petra]

hi bonscythe, i too had done the same thing as you with the roots last season,only i hadnt cut the limbs till i saw new growth.
i also sat my pot with tree in a tray of water under a shady tree. I repotted in the evening so it wouldnt stress .My mel was diffrent to yours also. Something i did notice was i didnt check it for some days, when i did it was out of water and a bit wilted.I toped the water, (this was day 5 mind you) also gave it half strength of seasol and Kept an eye on it. It had perked up and survived. it is still growing and im still wondering what to do with it after such an ordeal. So dont loose hope i think they are pretty hardy.hope this can be of some help.Cheers Petra!
thought i better mention im new to Bonsai this also.

[Bretts]

Hey Edward we hear many things that often contradict what others will tell us. I have listened to others that say it is a good idea to mix in Osmacote or similar slow release fert. It made sense that if the fert is spread through the soil in pockets then the roots will search them out and this improves root growth directly after repotting, compared to a liquid feed that will go to the roots. Whether it is a hard chop or not I don't believe that fert burns fresh cut roots but I guess there is very little release of fert with the low spring temps when using Osmacote. I am unsure if you are sugesting the osmacote will cause damage at the time of repotting or later in the year when the summer heat speeds the release of the heat regulated slow release?
I hear of instances where a certain death of a tree is blamed on a substance used in a period before the fact. Recently deaths of Banksia where blamed on seasol yet this has now been excepted as false.
I always have alarm bells ring when I hear referral like this on a tree they know of.
I hope you understand that we need to question these things. I have always said. Hey I even question my doctor
Do you have any more details on what you observed, was there obvious evidence of reverse osmosis (Water being drawn out of the plant due to high salt content in the soil)
Thanks for any added detal

[Edward Scissorhand]

Hey Edward we hear many things that often contradict what others will tell us. I have listened to others that say it is a good idea to mix in Osmacote or similar slow release fert. It made sense that if the fert is spread through the soil in pockets then the roots will search them out and this improves root growth directly after repotting, compared to a liquid feed that will go to the roots. Whether it is a hard chop or not I don't believe that fert burns fresh cut roots but I guess there is very little release of fert with the low spring temps when using Osmacote. I am unsure if you are sugesting the osmacote will cause damage at the time of repotting or later in the year when the summer heat speeds the release of the heat regulated slow release?
I hear of instances where a certain death of a tree is blamed on a substance used in a period before the fact. Recently deaths of Banksia where blamed on seasol yet this has now been excepted as false.
I always have alarm bells ring when I hear referral like this on a tree they know of.
I hope you understand that we need to question these things. I have always said. Hey I even question my doctor
Do you have any more details on what you observed, was there obvious evidence of reverse osmosis (Water being drawn out of the plant due to high salt content in the soil)
Thanks for any added detal

Hi Brett, Its nice to meet you and thank you for asking. Osmocote is not a slow or timed released fertilizer but a controlled one. This is despite what people think as slow releasing...I find Osmocote misleading in this way. Besides there is no real way to tell how much fertilizer is released from the capsules at one go. Imagine if a bunch of capsule was bunched up together in one section of the pot?

It could be that given a consistent temperature an even amount of nutrients would be released each day, but it could also be that more is released on day 1, a little less on day 10, even less on day 20 etc.
The reason is that it will depend on your soil temperature. Also, nobody really knows how evenly the fertilizer is dispersed which is dangerous during repotting and changing soil and mixing the capsules in. I will mention Osmocote releases when the weather warms up, even in winter when there are very warm days or whether sun continues to penetrate the pot continuosly for half a day. In Sydney we have had a very unusual winter where some days were hot as hell and some days cold as. I have seen in some instances Osmocote capsules emptied on the top of the pots in less than two weeks after application.

What happens with controlled release ferts is that water passes into the prill and pressure builds inside the prill (governed by temperature). This pressure forces the semi soluble nutrients out of the prill. That's why they release faster in warm soil and slower in cooler soil. The warmer the salt semi solution inside the prill the more soluble it becomes and the easier it passes through the prill.

Besides there isnt any harm in applying osmocote a few weeks after repotting when the roots are growing back is there Brett? Brett thanx for asking, its always good for a fellow bonsaist to question anything and everything. I do see your point that its common sense for the roots to wake and seek the fertiliser, but keep in mind that the fertiliser will ouse out whenever the weather feels like warming up, which means the roots will have no say if the fertiliser ouses out and gets in contact with freshly rootpruned roots. But if you are going to add osmocote I suggest you deposit it centimeters below the roots as gravity will pull the dispersion and give the roots a chance to seek it, rather than mix the osmocote up into the newly repotted soil. Thats why sometimes you notice osmocote way down at the bottom of established pot plants and no osmocote in the middle or top. Thats because some smart cookie nurseryman knows about its effects. But remember it will be a waste if some of it drains away. Thanx again, please feel free to question as I wont be offended if you still disagree. I appreciate your response and please dont hesitate to ask anything else. I will try to respond as much as I am able to. Nice meeting you. Cheers Eddie

[Bretts]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply Edward. I was aware of the temperature affecting the release of the nutrients from osmacote but never in such detail of how it happens. I have heard the horror stories of it doing damage to trees but they are always second hand. I would think one way to blame osmacote would be if definite reverse osmosis was evident. I and many others have used osmacote in this manner and no ill effects have been reported.

I should clarify I am not convinced that fertiliser will burn fresh pruned roots. I have only been doing this a few years but for some reason I started to push the boundaries with the advice of no fert until 4-6 weeks and never saw any ill effects. I plan on doing a little test this year and I will give some saplings a hard root prune and fert heavily straight after. I will pull the trees out of soil after a bit and compare the roots to a control to see if I can find any damage.
It does make more sense to hold of the liquid feed for 6 weeks not because it will burn the roots but so the roots will go looking for nutrients and this can be supplemented by osmacote or maybe dynamic lifter is better. That is the plan that is already in effect this year anyway. I will try to include these scenarios in the test as well. Not a big test just a lets see if anything funny happens test
Nice to meet you too

[bonscythe]

Just a minor update if anyone is/was interested...the rusty old leaves might not be signalling the demise of this plant (and my willingness to perform 'surgery' on natives! ) as today I saw the new buds that were breaking have continued on their merry way and are now elongating somewhat. It looks all good!
So the amount of osmocote I added to the soil mix must'nt of impacted too heavily on the pruned roots, although I have taken Brett's advice and placed it in total shade for the last week. Thanks for the reassurance, hopefully in some 15 years this one will see some action as an actual bonsai!
Cheers - Pat

[Pup]

Just a minor update if anyone is/was interested...the rusty old leaves might not be signalling the demise of this plant (and my willingness to perform 'surgery' on natives! ) as today I saw the new buds that were breaking have continued on their merry way and are now elongating somewhat. It looks all good!
So the amount of osmocote I added to the soil mix must'nt of impacted too heavily on the pruned roots, although I have taken Brett's advice and placed it in total shade for the last week. Thanks for the reassurance, hopefully in some 15 years this one will see some action as an actual bonsai!
Cheers - Pat

I sat back I was hoping Melaquin was going to tell you you cant Kill them with Gun powder.
I have never thrown away a dead looking Melaleuca even after two years.
Have a look at my post giving more. The one that was slow took two years before it sprouted again. Albeit from suckers. The description of most of our Melaleuca's is tree and or Scrub that is the difference. I do not use the practice of adding fertiliser to the mix, a personal thing.
What I have found is they are more liking of Acid conditions so Azalea fertilisers work well. Hope this gives you some reassurance.
Pup

[dale]

re: slow release fertilizer
I add a sprinkle to the top of the drainage layer, buffering with about half a cm of potting mix so newly cut roots do not directly contact the prills.
Temperature related release means the fertilizer runs out of oomph earlier than the package indicates if you live in the tropics. I treat a twelve month formulation as nine month and supplement fortnightly with half strength fish based liquid.

re: excess budding on trunk
I have a problem with excess buds forming on the trunk and base of phyllanthus multiflorus and wrightia religiosa, similar to the huge flush of new growth on my callistemons and melaleucas in the garden which followed a major prune (pollarded actually, to minimise weight of branches in case of cyclone).

Can anyone suggest a way to stop these buds, they do not rub off easily as they already have a strong stem when the first pair of leaves push past the thick bark. I tried an application of Japanese Cut Paste (the putty) but they just came through. Kiyonal wound paste (the latex based one in the tube) stops them but dries to a particularly ugly shiny plate.

a day without gardeing is a day wasted

Dale

[bonscythe]

This might sound like a crazy idea, mostly due to the fact that it is.. but, could you apply a little slice of electrical tape over the nodes on the trunk to stop the latent buds sensing light before you want to 'show' the plant?
Some Melaleucas have really obvious node points, even on thick barked trunks, maybe cover them pre-show and take them off when you wanna show it?
Just an idea, never tried it....tweezers + persistance works for me at the moment but when I get more plants, who knows!
Cheers everyone

[bonscythe]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, the tree seems very healthy now, so must of just been a hiccup as Bretts said!
Got a little wire on it, gonna be pretty experimental as far as styling goes with this plant...make up for the straight trunk with some interesting upper branching?!