dying pine, whats wrong?

[arklan]

my boss got 3 of these 2 needle pines from a nursery sold as bonsai stock, the pots they were in were smaller than foam cup and the trees had grown 2+ feet tall. they r long and skinny with not many branches and will need a LOT of work to become useable.
so when i pulled them out of the pot they were horribly root bound and had almost pure white stuff all around the outside which im assuming is mould, so i cut all of that off and repotted them in to decence size plastic pots and watered them well, first with 1/10 mix of bleach and water to kill off any mould and then straight water.
some of the mould had gotten in to the trunk of the tree where it connects to the ground and looked a bit rotted.
they were then placed in a spot where theyd get sun until about 12 before the shade came over them.
1 of them is putting along well, the other 2 look like crap and have been slowly going down hill.

any idea whats wrong with them?

[Damian Bee]

I have never watered a plant with bleach mate, how long after the watering in did they go down hill?
Was the mould white? It could have been beneficial fungi, (micorhizzae).

[Sean M]

Im no expert but dont pines rely on the white mould to survive?

[Rory]

bleach? uhhh off hand, I'd say you've answered your own query right there.

[Haydenmc]

Hmmm, yeah sounds like you killed the good mould - a few do exist.
Some of the lower growth appears to be 3 year old so it would naturally be going yellow and preparing to fall off anyway, this time of year the more sun the better, dont water too much - let the soil get a little dry before you go again - this will help the roots recover.
start a light fertiliser reigeme in about 3 weeks and if by October the candles havent started moving and putting out vibrant new needles i would move them on.
Best of luck

H

[MoGanic]

Unfortunately the other guys are bang on. White mould = good for pines as it assists in the breakdown and absorption of nutrients from the soil. bleach = bad for plants.

Often if a pine hasn't got the Mycorrhizal fungus (note the term 'Mycorrhiza' refers to the beneficial relationship between the roots and the fungus on which most plants rely, not the actual fungus itself) and its unhealthy or slow to grow, the fungus is added from another pot to help it recover. Also during repots some of the old soil containing the fungus is added for the same reason.

At least you'll know for next time hey?

[MoGanic]

Some of the lower growth appears to be 3 year old so it would naturally be going yellow and preparing to fall off anyway
H

I was of the understanding that old needles generally brown at the tip and this extends to the base. Is this incorrect? (As opposed to browning at the base then extending to the tip which normally is a sign of lack of nutrients).

Sorry, I'm not disagreeing with you, I ask to ensure I am well informed. I appreciate any response provided.

[alpineart]

Hi Arklan . mate they look like they are too far gone to recover , when they are pot bound its very difficult to re-wet unless submerged . If the pot was full of roots and Mycorrhizea it would basically be water repellant .

There is a "Simple Slip Potting" topic here which covers potting nursery stock or plastic pot grown material to a bonsai pot , it not on a pine in the topic but it works on all species i have purchased or collected and removed from plastic pots .

As Pup mentions in his reply in this topic , most of the productive roots in a pot run down and around the outside . The white mycorrhizea is benificial to pines it can be added on repotting if it is lacking .

Putting bleach near any plant's roots will have dire consequences.

Cheers Alpineart

[squizzy]

Just for reference. I worked in a wheaale nursery for a while and whilst we didn't water things with bleach we did often use it duted to clean pots, store freshly prepared rose cutting and clean benches. I would say bleach might have been a proem here but I wouldn't say it's a big no no.

Just my opinion from what I have experienced over the years.

Squizz

[shibui]

I agree Squizzy. Bleach solution is routinely used to kill bugs and fungus on cuttings before they are potted up and to sterilise pots. Bleach:water at 1:10 should not hurt a tree.
Pines do have a relationship with mychorizza but it is not essential. The michorhizza helps feed the tree in really poor soil but when ample fert is available they can grow quite well without it so i doubt killing the fungus will affect the tree so dramatically.
This result is more likely shock from the root pruning. I would normally prune a fair bit off the top to compensate for any root removal.

[Haydenmc]

I was of the understanding that old needles generally brown at the tip and this extends to the base

Yeah that seems more correct, perhaps this time of night after a long day isnt the best time for an online diagnosis.

H