A missed opportunity

[Craig]

About 12 months ago when purchasing another tree, i passed the opportunity to buy this beast .

So today i decided to go get it
The trunk is tapered although it is a little long and
the owner wasn't too sure about which species it is , so if you know please let me know.

The base is about 120mm with Nebari out to 170mm,
Height is 1500mm ,
Width is 1200mm,

i once read an article where Mr Kimura split a Pine trunk and developed a Nine tree group from the one tree.

It's going to take some work whatever happens, , what do you think?

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[coocarch]

That's awesome!

[alpineart]

Hi Craig , thats my kind of material . Very nice specimen at that . I would suggest looking at the Juniperus Virginiana and sub species or x media's . The list is a long as your arm a bit like pines , but i think it is a Virginiana . I recently done a post on one and Bodhi did another from memory . There are some close ups of the foliage if that helps .

Cheers Alpine

[Hackimoto]

You might also consider Chamaecyparis species. Not sure which one though. See link below.

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&c ... mQXiyMnvAg

[harry]

I think it Cupressus arozinca ( Arizona cypress) just googled it and the foliage looks similar , but so does Chamaesyparis pifera (Plumosa)



harry

[jarrod23]

what do you think?

Seeing as you asked......

From the very short time i have started to learn this hobby, people have said to look for trees with fat trunks with rapid taper and low branches with foliage close to the main trunk and movement etc.
The foliage looks like it is a long way from the trunk on very skinny branches with no secondary branches, the trunk looks dead straight and almost taperless, I know bonsai's dont happen overnight but would i be correct in assuming this one will take a very long time to become a good bonsai?
Hope you dont mind me saying this and i am sure you will make a lier out of me.... but this plant looks more like a pot plant suited to around a pool then bonsai.
jarrod

[Andrew Legg]

what do you think?

Seeing as you asked......

From the very short time i have started to learn this hobby, people have said to look for trees with fat trunks with rapid taper and low branches with foliage close to the main trunk and movement etc.
The foliage looks like it is a long way from the trunk on very skinny branches with no secondary branches, the trunk looks dead straight and almost taperless, I know bonsai's dont happen overnight but would i be correct in assuming this one will take a very long time to become a good bonsai?
Hope you dont mind me saying this and i am sure you will make a lier out of me.... but this plant looks more like a pot plant suited to around a pool then bonsai.
jarrod

Jarrod,

I want to respond to your post, because I think it is very valid, but I also think there is something important to be learnt from it. Others will no doubt chime in to offer other opinions.

What you mention as being good attributes for a bonsai are indeed 100% correct. If you want to make a nice tree in the shortest possible time according to the basic formula, then this is the route to take. In this regard you are spot on. Having said that, I think it is very important that we as bonsai growers and artists challenge ourselves. The only way we can do this is to break the mould of what is considered to be good bonsai material. In doing so we must accept that the results of our efforts are likely to take longer, and are quite possibly not going to appeal to as many people, but what I think we can be sure of is that when it goes well, and when it works out and it all comes together, the results can be far more interesting and thought provoking than those achieved with optimal material. In my mind, the process is more challenging and often more rewarding. There will for sure be differing opinions as to when it is appropriate for a grower to make the break into this nether world of bonsai nirvana, but I guess that depends on how traditional you are and what you aim to achieve from the hobby.

I do bonsai because I enjoy the process. I do not do it to try to win competitions etc, and I don't grow trees to show other people, so the end result (if there is such a thing in bonsai) is less important to me than the journey. I guess the moral of this story or post is that yes, you are right, there is such a thing as ideal material and good attributes, but if you are willing to look beyond these, there is a whole heap of fun out there just waiting to be had!

All that said, I also think it is important for beginners to learn about what constitutes a good bonsai tree and to learn how to grow and design trees. This is always an easier process when the material is closer to ideal. It is important that the beginner understands what constitutes a good tree and why, as when he or she is looking to expand his or her experience, there will always be more sensitivity as to what to look for in more outlandish material and what to avoid.This groundwork allows the individual to understand when there is hope!

I think there is hope for Craig's tree!

Cheers,

Andrew

[Andrew E]

Hi Craig,
I think it is part of the Chameacyparis family. Nice trunk to start with and as you stated a while to go before it gets there but I think that it could. You'll probably end up with most of the tree on the floor when you style it, but hey thats part of the fun. Perhaps a taller tree with branches brought down to create pads lower down, a literati, or long elegant myogi?
Keep us posted as to the progress.
And Andrew.....well said, you beat me to it.

Andrew

[harry]

hi folks harry here, this material has potential, with the right mind set, craig has already mentioned mr kimuras efforts on a white pine where he split the trunk and wrapped it up, to make more than one trunk he made a clump.

has any one spotted my deliberate mistake when i thought to offer up what species it is the word psifera, after reading it was to late to put it right so here it is now.While looking i also saw another possiblity thuja occidentalis the foliage looks the same as do many others.

harry

[Andrew Legg]

Here's your tree Craig. Great taper and movement.

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[Craig]

what do you think?

Seeing as you asked......

From the very short time i have started to learn this hobby, people have said to look for trees with fat trunks with rapid taper and low branches with foliage close to the main trunk and movement etc.
The foliage looks like it is a long way from the trunk on very skinny branches with no secondary branches, the trunk looks dead straight and almost taperless, I know bonsai's dont happen overnight but would i be correct in assuming this one will take a very long time to become a good bonsai?
Hope you dont mind me saying this and i am sure you will make a lier out of me.... but this plant looks more like a pot plant suited to around a pool then bonsai.
jarrod

Jarrod, say what you want mate,
Ok , The first thing I want to say is that "TAPER isn't everything" , some of the most amazing Bonsai i have seen do not have any taper at all.

Fat trunks with massive taper are all well and good for a "close/near view" bonsai, however a bonsai designed to be a "far/distant view" doesn't necessarily need it as the trunks/branches when viewed from afar basically look untapered anyway.

You are correct about the foliage being far from the trunk. However this can be either be utilised in the design or the branches can be worked and the foliage "chased" back closer to the trunk. This tree does from nearly all branch to trunk junction have new or young shoots growing, so that is one thig taken into consideration when buying.

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The trunk is 1500mm high and it does Taper gradually as i previously stated, yes the lower trunk seems straight but the thickness makes up for that and a well designed Shari can do wonders .

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Now what do i do with stock like this??
I can see at least 6 or 7 options without even considering bending,splitting or anything like that.

Why??
I think easy trees are too easy.Time for a challenge. Thanks mate


Hi Andrew, mate at least 1 person had to suggest that eh, uh uh no way mate but thankyou , please do come again

[Craig]

And thankyou everyone else

[Andrew Legg]

what do you think?

Hi Andrew, mate at least 1 person had to suggest that eh, uh uh no way mate but thankyou , please do come again

Sorry bud, I just couldn't resist! I just had to be the first to say it!

I think that tree has loads too many design options to even try to offer an opinion on a forum like this. If it were mine, I'd just spend a whole heap of time looking at it and playing with ideas in my head or with pen and paper!

I'll certainly be interested to see where it goes!

Cheers,

Andrew

[jarrod23]

Sorry, didnt realize you were only open to back slapping comments.......

Great tree mate. Yes, we should all challenge ourselves by buying crappy material and turning it into something not quite so crappy. Thats the way to go!

[Craig]

Sorry, didnt realize you were only open to back slapping comments.......

Great tree mate. Yes, we should all challenge ourselves by buying crappy material and turning it into something not quite so crappy. Thats the way to go!

Jarrod, wake up mate,

if you can dish out the comments but can't take any feedback re; comment you make then don't make one ,

Not once did i have a go at you,


so if you can not tell the difference from me trying to teach you something to me having a crack , then keep clear of me mate.....................................................