Anyone Using Turface MVP?...

Dario · Post by **Dario** » June 14th, 2012, 1:04 am

Hi all, Sage Hort. in Melbourne has replaced the no longer Maidenwell diatomite stock with Turface MVP.
I did a bit of research on it on IBC (a couple of interesting threads on it) and also on the internet. I have seen it's used in the UK by some too.
I was considering using scoria or getting Mt Sylvia diatomite (convinced the ph of Mt.S isn't really an issue based on AB members that have used it for a while), but the turface is just around the corner from me and easier to get my hands on.
Anyway, I specifically want to know if anyone here has used it, or is using it and what they think of it?
So please tell me your experiences of using turface mvp...I would love to hear from you.
I have ordered a couple of bags to trial it this growing season, so I will let you know how I go.
Cheers, Dario.

Luke308 · Post by **Luke308** » June 14th, 2012, 7:16 am

Hi Dario,

I haven't used it, but there was a sample bag at my local club which came from the aabc convention. I had a look at it and was surprised at how small the particle size was. I am unsure if it was just the bottom of a bag, or if it is a true example of particle size but it ranged from dust to about 3mm. I think it would be great for shohin and minis, but for larger trees and stock trees I think it may be too fine. I'd be interested to hear other peoples opinions regarding this also.

Luke

Dario · Post by **Dario** » June 14th, 2012, 1:22 pm

Thanks for your feedback Luke

mmm, interesting indeed...I hope that was the bottom of the bag you saw. From what I read over at IBC it does have a fair amount of fines that are sifted and used for cuttings, mame etc, but it is also supposed to have larger particals too.
Sage Hort. said similar size to Diatomite 2-7mm and I sure hope that is the case.
I will let you know when I pick some up.
Thanks again.
Anyone else? Surely someone has tried it?
Cheers, Dario.

marcela · Post by **marcela** » June 14th, 2012, 6:50 pm

Hi Dario,
I bought a bag at the AABC convention as they were there,I've not used anything like this before but I got myself quite a few native tube stock and have just used it in with the bonsai mix I usually use to pot up all the native stock.The particle size is pretty much the same as it was in the sample bag they were giving out,I just used approx 15% with my soil mix so will see how they go.

Marcela

Luke308 · Post by **Luke308** » June 14th, 2012, 7:16 pm

marcela wrote:Hi Dario,
I bought a bag at the AABC convention as they were there,I've not used anything like this before but I got myself quite a few native tube stock and have just used it in with the bonsai mix I usually use to pot up all the native stock.The particle size is pretty much the same as it was in the sample bag they were giving out,I just used approx 15% with my soil mix so will see how they go.
Marcela

I know everyone has their own preferences when it comes to potting substrates, but majority of those I have seen using diatomite or similar (kitty litter/pumice/turface etc) use a much higher percentage usually around the 70% mark. There are a couple of members at my club that are using diatomite at 100% for pines and deciduous trees with great success. The pines have the most mycorrhizae I have ever seen!!

I don't think you will see any real noticeable benefit at 15%. Maybe next time use 15% native mix and 85% turface? I personally have been using around 70-80% diatomite with approx 20% zeolite and 10% pine nuggets. I am considering upping the ratio of diatomite and maybe even using 100% myself next season.

Ben10000 · Post by **Ben10000** » June 14th, 2012, 8:02 pm

Hi Dario
I'm also convinced about the Mt Sylvia Diatomite, one major advantage i see with diatomite is it's weight, compared to turface, personally dont want to carry heavy pots around, anyways any idea where you can get Mt Sylvia Diatomite in Victoria?

Scott Roxburgh · Post by **Scott Roxburgh** » June 14th, 2012, 8:07 pm

Ben10000 wrote:Hi Dario
I'm also convinced about the Mt Sylvia Diatomite, one major advantage i see with diatomite is it's weight, compared to turface, personally dont want to carry heavy pots around, anyways any idea where you can get Mt Sylvia Diatomite in Victoria?

Search is your friend...
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=12037

Ben10000 · Post by **Ben10000** » June 14th, 2012, 8:32 pm

cool thanks Scott, I do recall calling Vitec, but they were trying to push Turface too? i'll try call them again to see if they have stock. this info was just posted today so he might've stocked up.

Thanks again Scott

Dario · Post by **Dario** » June 15th, 2012, 1:06 am

Thanks Marcela, Luke, Scott and Ben for your contributions to the thread

Yeah Ben, Vitec have it for sure. I spoke to them today.
Infact I ordered the Turface before Lakepipes informed us in his thread where the Mt Sylvia diatomite can be ordered in Melb.
My preference is with diatomite as I was using it previously (and yes beeing light is a plus for sure). I am still keen to try the turface though and although I did downsize my order after hearing where I can get the Mt Sylvia, I like the fact that there are a fair amount of fines in it as I will be doing a fair few mame projects and also cuttings etc.
Thanks again, Dario.

Jow · Post by **Jow** » June 24th, 2012, 5:01 pm

Ok, so at the last AABC convention I bought a bag of turface MVP and today I sieved a little to see what the usable percentages were.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1340521213.563787.jpg

From right to left.

- 1.5mm flyscreen mesh. (interesting there was not a lot of dust mainly just fine grains)
- 1.5-3mm mesh. Probably too small for most uses, maybe ok for cuttings or seed raising?
- 3-5mm size. Usable particles.

So looking at the above piles the real usable sizes only occupy about half the bag. Not sure what diatomite use to sift out at but being 2-7mm my guess is that it use to have many more usable particals per bag. Not sure how the new diatomite supplier sifts their bags so not sure how it compares with the MVP.

A possible mix? Pumice, bark and Turface MVP.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1340521285.064736.jpg

I will probably use this mix this season until i have used up what i have left and work out what to try next from there.

Joe.

Dario · Post by **Dario** » June 24th, 2012, 8:10 pm

Hi Jow, thanks for that info

I went to Sage Hort in Cheltenhem on Friday and got two bags of Turface mvp to try out.
I had done some research and a few of the IBC members said that mvp does have a large proportion of fines as you showed, and that some people use the fines for cuttings and mame. I am starting some cuttings for future mame projects so this is one of the reasons I purchased mvp.
It was also said that the bags don't have a dust issue and that they use it pretty much straight from the bag.
On Saturday morning I drove to Somerville to get Mt Sylvia diatomite. Today I spent quite a few hours washing and sifting it. I also use a large plastic sieve from a hardware store. Today I made a sieve with a wooden frame and used a fine metal mesh (like fly screen but thin metal) that I got from a seconds bin at the local hardware store, in order to collect the medium size particles.
It worked well, but I lost the smallest size particles, although it was a tiny proportion of the overall diatomite bag.
I won't sieve the mvp untill I make an extra fine sieve so that I collect the tiny fines for my cuttings.
I still have another two bags of diatomite to sieve, andafter today I too would love an automated sieve!

Your mix of pumice, bark and Turface MVP looks good

Cheers, Dario.

Jow · Post by **Jow** » July 5th, 2012, 10:05 am

I just got off the phone to a friendly guy at Vitec in sommerville and he is posting me a couple of bags of 2-7mm diatomite. I will run it through the same sieve test once it arrives for comparison.

Dario · Post by **Dario** » July 5th, 2012, 7:39 pm

Be sure to where a mask Jow!...there is a lot more dust than in the old Maidenwell bags.
It also seems to have a smoother texture compared to Maidenwell.
I found a larger percentage of fines in the turface mvp, but interested to see the exact quantities and sizes from your results.
Cheers,Dario.

Jow · Post by **Jow** » July 7th, 2012, 4:47 pm

Ok, so just had a chance to do the same sieve test on the vitec diatomite.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1341643540.232978.jpg

First pile on the right is 5-7mm ish.
Middle pile is 3-5mm.
Left pile is 1.5-3mm.

Not a lot of dust or fines in this test. It was from the top of the bag though.

Scott Roxburgh · Post by **Scott Roxburgh** » December 5th, 2013, 4:51 pm

I know this is an old topic but is anyone in Aus still using it?

Mike Hagedorn has an interesting blog post at the moment:
http://crataegus.com/2013/11/24/life-without-turface/

Some quotes:
"...Turface, which is still, unfortunately, a common bonsai soil component. I say unfortunate as this is one of the worst soil components you could ever use."

"There are two obvious faults of Turface. The first is that it produces some of the most anaemic, thready root systems that can be had for any money, and secondly it has a deadly hydrophobic property when dry."

"There are many things that can work (as soil), but I will say that pumice is a near-perfect particle for fine root growth."

I have never used Turface, the only place I have seen it available was at the aabc in Melbourne and I thought it seemed a little fine. What are the thoughts on Turface in Australia?

Disclaimer: Pumice makes up a large part of my soil mix.

AusBonsai