what do you think of "gleditzia" as a bonsai?

[the grasshopper]

hi i have created a bonsia from a species named "gleditzia" sorry if spelling is wrong but i have managed to get a decent looking tree out of it all spring and summer... that is until the leaves fell off as its decidcous and am left with a bare looking trunk through winter lol anyway has anyone else ever used this species to bonsai? and can you give me any info you can as i cant really find much out about bonsai gleditzia. ill add a few pics of the one i did any help, info, comments or opinions of what i have done are greatly appreciated

[the grasshopper]

also i need your opinion on the root going over the rock, does it work as a feature? or look out of place and should i cut it off? please comment your opinion. cheers

[shibui]

Gleditsia tricanthos - Honey locust. The pods filled with sweet, sticky stuff make great stock food but I think the compound leaf is too big to make a believable bonsai 'tree'. Having said that you have produced quite a nice small bonsai. If it pleases you keep going with it.
Yours may be too young or it might be a thorn free variety but Gleditsia often have 5 cm long, needle sharp thorns on the branches and sometimes all down the trunk.
Gleditsia is very hardy, drought tolerant and long lived so should be reasonably easy to grow as a bonsai.

I am not a fan of roots draped over a stone like this. I always ask the question 'How would this have occurred naturally?' Roots don't normally climb out of the ground over a rock and down the other side. If there has been erosion of the soil surface to expose this the other roots would be more exposed I think. My advice - remove the root and the stone.

[the grasshopper]

i too was thinking the stone and root look a bit out of place but being as im no expert i dont know these things im only starting off so i am greatful for your advice and pointing that out to me. i think i may have some sort of different species gleditsia as it has no thorns at all and has quite good looking leaves as you can see in the pic. the only thing is the shoots that the smaller leaves grow on fall off in winter and the tree is dormant until spring when the new shoots burst so you get a completely different looking tree every year which i kind of like that aspect of it

[Mojo Moyogi]

what do you think of "gleditzia" as a bonsai

Compound leaves = not worth your time.

Yours may be too young or it might be a thorn free variety but Gleditsia often have 5 cm long, needle sharp thorns on the branches and sometimes all down the trunk.

Hi Neil, do you mean Robinia?

Cheers,
Mojo

[shibui]

I don't remember robinia being particularly thorny Mojo but the natural form of gleditsia certainly is. found this image for you -

gleditsia.PNG

The cultivated varieties like 'sunburst' have fewer or no thorns.

[the grasshopper]

i now know what the term compund leaves means than to you mojo but im not too sure i agree with you saying that tree with those leaves are not worth your time. this bonsai i have created i really like the fact that it has compound leaves and they are still able to be controlled and used effectively. even though it prob breaks all the bonsai rules to use this gleditsia for bonsai i still like what i have created, and i have seen other people create nice trees using varieties that have compound leaves check out this link. viewtopic.php?f=129&t=4827

[Mojo Moyogi]

I don't remember robinia being particularly thorny Mojo but the natural form of gleditsia certainly is. found this image for you -

gleditsia.PNG

The cultivated varieties like 'sunburst' have fewer or no thorns.

Holy Gorse Bushes Batman!

I stand corrected. Robinia do have nasty thorns in the leaf axils, I wasn't aware that Gleditsia had the same.

Cheers,
Mojo

[Mojo Moyogi]

i now know what the term compund leaves means than to you mojo but im not too sure i agree with you saying that tree with those leaves are not worth your time. this bonsai i have created i really like the fact that it has compound leaves and they are still able to be controlled and used effectively. even though it prob breaks all the bonsai rules to use this gleditsia for bonsai i still like what i have created, and i have seen other people create nice trees using varieties that have compound leaves check out this link. viewtopic.php?f=129&t=4827

grasshopper,
I hear the argument for compound leaved trees as bonsai, but I don't think the rewards offered by said species outweigh the effort required.

Ash is the only compound leaf deciduous tree that I have ever owned or worked on and that was a long time ago. As deciduous bonsai go, in general I find that Ash are too coarse for my tastes 'hopper. The tree in the linked thread is to me OK out of leaf, but I can't help thinking there are a hundred species I would rather it be, many of which would be considered to be outside the realm of what is considered a bonsai species. No reflection at all on the grower of the tree in the thread, but it doesn't tick enough of those inexplicable visual boxes of mine for me to consider it desirable. Maybe I am a simple man who likes his deciduous trees to have finely ramified branches that reach up and out and my conifers to be stately and masculine. Perhaps I'm prejudiced, perhaps my answer to the original question asked should have been "I've never seen a decent Gleditsia bonsai, go for it, be the first" or something along those lines.

To me, there is no doubt that if in Australia we experimented with a wider variety of species than we do now, bonsai would be far more interesting to a lot more people.
But I can't help thinking: what if we just got better at growing species (native and exotic) that are ideally suited to bonsai, would that not improve the overall quality of bonsai in Australia?

Cheers,
Mojo

[the grasshopper]

oh trust me i see your point and agree completley mojo but like i said most of my trees break some sort of bonsai rules but that is what makes this tree unique and what i like about it is the illusion those leaves create as branches with small leaves when in fact there are no branches at all on that tree, i did it by only having a trunk and using the compound leaves to create the illusion of branches. definetly not a perfect bonsai by any means and there will be critics of what i have done, but in my opinion its interesting and effective. we all have different tastes i dont expect everyone to like it but it just an idea i came up with that i liked cheers for your input, the grasshopper is a knowledge sponge and appreciates your advice...

[shibui]

We comment from the lofty heights of years of experience Mojo but remember back to when we were young and enthusiastic and could do anything.
By all means provide advice to the young and enthusiastic but then step back and allow them the opportunity to make the same mistakes we did, if they want to.

Some may even come up with new techniques and ideas to extend the art as a result of their efforts.

[Mojo Moyogi]

We comment from the lofty heights of years of experience Mojo but remember back to when we were young and enthusiastic and could do anything.
By all means provide advice to the young and enthusiastic but then step back and allow them the opportunity to make the same mistakes we did, if they want to.

Some may even come up with new techniques and ideas to extend the art as a result of their efforts.

Wise words Neil. I'm still young-ish and enthusiastic (ish) aren't I?

Cheers,
Mojo

[shibui]

Indeed you are Mojo, but your perspective of the world around you depends entirely on where, on the hill of knowledge, you are currently standing. Hoping to see you all closer to the top someday (unless, of course, you overtake me while I explore some promising looking path off to the side!)

[squizzy]

Is there a chance you have a golden rain tree here and not a gleditsia

Cheers

Squizz

[squizzy]

The other possibility is that it's a white cedar. Melia.

Squizz