Branch building quandry

[Jan]

I have some collected trunks, Callistemon and Hakea (and, let’s be honest here, Elm, Eucalypt, Plum, etc – I can’t help myself and am trying to resist yamadori temptation); the overly long branches were removed and the trunks reshot – so far, so good.

The plants are healthy and growing well but it is decision time – do I allow the shoots to grow out to thicken over a few seasons, then cut them back severely and try for ramification or do I trim them constantly, clip ‘n grow style, to try to build both branch thickness and ramification at the same time?

Unlike some younger AusBonsai members, I don’t have time on my side, so I’m interested in results in the shorter time frame. I’ve been reading a Colin Lewis book, “The Art of Bonsai Design” (I regularly review books for inspiration) and was most impressed with his “A Gardener’s Legacy – Building on a Hollow Stump (Ulmus procea)” where he built the major branch framework first and then attended to the secondary etc. so I’ve been questioning my current use of “Clip ‘n Grow”….I’d welcome your thoughts on the best way to proceed,
Thanks,

Jan.

[Dario]

I love this book Jan and it does seem that this is the long term approach to branch formation, however I think the results speak for themseves!
Sorry I have nothing to contribute, but upon seeing mention of this book (especially the Ulmus procera sections) I just had to comment.
As I am new to bonsai I am often confused about which method to use on collected trees.
Anyway, best of luck and I hope the experienced members give you the info you are after.
Cheers, Dario.

[kcpoole]

Great question Jan

Peter adams suggests ( for maples) let the branch extend and then cut back and regrow the next year. rinse and repeat and once you have the initial strucute built then Build the fine ramification.
This process assumes the tree is growing in North American / European environment, where the growth is much slower.

For me, I am letting them extend for a couple of inches or 2 ( depending on the size of the tree, or about 1/3 the height), then cut back and let the next 2 branchlets extend by about 2/3 the original length, then cut again. Rinse and repeat as necessary

Interested to hear other views tho

Ken

[bodhidharma]

I use both methods Jan. I firstly wire the extending branch into place and let it grow for the season. I do not cut it but just let it extend and keep wiring it. While it is doing that i will work on its first secondary maybe even two by wiring and then clipping and growing it. This will lead to tertiary branching on the secondary's. I will even defoliate the secondarys but not the main branch. The tree i am showing you has been in training (after collection) for three years now to achieve branching. You will notice the leaves close in to the trunk are smaller than the ones on the ends. Next growing season i cut back to the last secondary i worked on and begin the process all over again. That gives me two secondarys per growing season (and some tertiarys) and maybe, 75-100mm of main branching per growing season.

[Jan]

Thanks Dario, Ken and bodhidharma.

I’ll let the branches extend (despite it tempting my trimming impulses ), wire them into place and work on any secondaries (tertiaries ) they provide and see how they go.

Jan.

[GavinG]

For me, it's certainly a judgement call, (different species, different sizes and so on) but unless you want weedy little branches growing from a strong trunk, you'd tend to let them grow strong - the first year is just to get the angle right, and some meat on it. Then the next year, as Bodhi says, maybe two cuts, and after that, when the branch has a bit of strength, then ramify, defoliate and so on. And fertilize!

Gavin

[Paulneill]

I'm under the impression that when building branches to achieve taper each section of branch takes one growing season . And trying to get 2 sections of branch in one season will result in no taper in those sections ?

[bodhidharma]

. And trying to get 2 sections of branch in one season will result in no taper in those sections ?

That would depend entirely on the tree as you would build a branch on the elm (alternate leaves) differently to a maple (opposite) on an elm you can easily build taperin one growing season whereas maples, for me anyway, take longer.

[Petra]

so in diagram is this what U all R Saying?

Picture1.jpg

each season branches double.

[Dario]

. And trying to get 2 sections of branch in one season will result in no taper in those sections ?

That would depend entirely on the tree as you would build a branch on the elm (alternate leaves) differently to a maple (opposite) on an elm you can easily build taperin one growing season whereas maples, for me anyway, take longer.

Sounds like a good idea for a thread...differences in forming branches between alternate and opposing leaf structures.
Just a thought?
Cheers, Dario.

[bodhidharma]

so in diagram is this what U all R Saying?

Picture1.jpg

each season branches double.

Beautiful drawings Petra Yes but i always let the main branch extend each growing season.