Picea Abies - Norway Spruce

[alpineart]

These were a recent purchase from Melbourne , some fellas got sick and tired of their Christmas trees

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. Talk about right place right time , most definately worth the trip . Both trees are about 1.8m + high so they are quite long in the tooth for pot plants . I have set layers mid way to hopefully produce a couple of extra mediums to play with .The larger of the 2 will make a very good clump style

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and the lesser will produce a twin trunk

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, if the play ball and sprout roots .The bases have had a branch length reduction only , come winter a savage wire job will turn these ordinary trunks into more of a Yamadori trainer. If the layers fail then nothing ventured nothing gained , i would have severed them mid way in any case so the tops would have been wasted .A simple ring-bark with extra notches to increase the area for root stimulation and a wire tornaquet to divert the roots outwards was placed on each trunk then painted with hormone powder mix to a stiff paste .Its easier to apply as a paste rather than a powder and personal experience shows its more effective than jel ,as it doesn't dilute on the initial watering , each to his own on this one .Cheers Alpineart

[woody]

HI Alpine,
Nice buy.
A question for you ...or anyone ...I've read air-layering can take 3-6 months, and should be done in spring/summer. (an Elm I did at the beginning of last summer took about 4 months). But in the last couple of days, I've seen you experienced bonsaist doing this in the beginning of autumn. And Alpine, you being from Vic, I imagine your winter coming earlier than NSW and above. Both air-layers have been on needle species. Is this the exception to the rule Or doesn't it matter when we air-layer
thanks Alpine,
Woody

[alpineart]

HiWoody , no rules for this amatuer , never has been never will be , i tend to make my own .I do what needs to be done when i feel in the mood ,i collect out of season if the material is AT RISK of being destroyed , however each method , time , material , and application is all noted then retried a second time . If it works "I RETRY IT " then i post it as personal experience , not read and posted as some do .I do this for my personal benefit and if you want follow guidelines that's good .Nothing ventured nothing gained , try to find info on Air-layering a Norway spruce , i cant , so i do it .Now is a good time as the new growth is hardening off so it has basically finished its growth cycle now it should have the strength to grow some roots ..or will it .

I have asked numerous questions on forums but nobody has given or been able to give positive proof as to a method that works better, not once but mutiple times . If i'm wrong i will tell you the layer failed if and when it does , if it works then i will try again , "same bat time same bat channel" then try a different method/time of the season .I spend more time experimenting on methods and researching , trying to find info on how too ,if its not available then thats the challenge .Air-layering of junipers , pines , cedars in fact the majority of junipers can take up to 2 years , some i dont bother because i cant get them to play ball . All info such as age of the subject , placement of the layer , mediums used , hormone treatment , all must be taken into consideration . young material may take a shorter period but i chose to do most of my work on older collected of purchased material .

I have had Japanese Maples take 2 seasons to take root ,and had failures , yet i have had good results in 3months using only different potting /bagging methods . Mate a question for you ,Is it summer Autunm or spring because i'm not quite sure as to which season we're in .Mother nature is a little confused as well .Anyway if you follow guidelines and rules then hopefully you will always get a good result , i simply apply my own as i cant seem to find info required to suit the species i'm working with . I kill a lot of trees pushing the limits in order to gain knowledge of what works and what doesn't .These methods may not work in your climate , differing facters : climate , temperature , humidity , rainfall ,even altitude , water quality many many things to consider .What works for The Old Fella in the west "Hi Pup" Wont work or work as well or as quick for me in the Alps , guarantee he doesn't get snow or black ice .Cheers Alpineart

[woody]

G'day Alpine,
, thats what I call a great answer. Ledgendary in my books mate. I've already managed to kill a quite a lot in my short experience. It might have been on this site, somebody said if your not killing trees in the bonsai world, your not trying hard enough. Another ledge. comment. Unfortunately for me, the more I kill, the more it costs, I no likey
I am more of the 'read and post it' at the moment. But if no ones posting back an answer to the relevent question, and i've got a book handy, I am happy to send it. It will be a good day in my life, when the practical outweighs the theory. Till that time comes.......
Cheers Alpine, you've definately given me more encouragement to just try something and see what happens.
Woody

[Japh]

I love your approach, Alpine. It's like Thomas Edison and the lightbulb, right? Even if you don't find a way that works, you've found plenty that you can categorically say don't work!

[alpineart]

Hi Woody , just be prepared to try , step outside the square and i will reap benefits both personal and horticultural .The right attitude will take you beyond the books .Food for thought .

Hi Japh , i'm no rocket scientist mate , but i love challenge .This Bonsai caper is a real challenge as we dont have 100 - 200 -400 yo yamadori as the Northern Hemiphere blokes do . Growing in the back yard is where it happens here so i try to replicate just that , with some of my unusual purchases .Then "butcher it" or is it "fashion it" till it looks old hopefully then i will have something unusual to work with .

Cheers Fella's . Alpine

[MattA]

Alpine,

Your workings are as always your own & i love it, your dedication to play, learn and grow with your trees has always inspired me. I love collecting and am finally finding ways to collect some of my local natives that could help find me a way to those yamadori you speak of.

Keep it up mate.. forget the books & write them yourself...

Japh, hurry up and get that damn software done... Is it going to have an ability to swap plant files easily with other growers?

Matt

[alpineart]

Hi Matt , life's a learning lesson and i'm always looking at way's to improve and grow with my tree's . Yamadori hunts are the most rewarding past-time , i spend a heck of a lot of time treking and riding through the hills and mountains , i'm there for the inspiration of good old Mother Nature . Blessed with the good people put in my path over the last 2 decades also who have aided my quest for Knowledge from their personal experiences and there encouragement to challenge myself above and beyond written literature . Books are good but a lot of them show nice pics and a lot of dribble , no nitty gritty how too's , Anyone can "talk the talk" ,but you must also have "walked the walk" . I have 2 Cockatiels that can talk and yes they can tip prune Bonsai, not bad at jin and shari work either and i still have that very tree , a little unusual but willing to try anything .Cheers Alpine

[Japh]

Alpine, Thomas Edison was no rocket scientist either. Just a guy experimenting with ideas to find out what worked

Japh, hurry up and get that damn software done... Is it going to have an ability to swap plant files easily with other growers?

Hey Matt! I'm working on it as fast as I can!

That's not something that will be possible in the first version, but it is already on my list of future features, yeah. Obviously I can't put every idea into version 1, or it'll never get finished.

It's actually been slightly delayed as I've had to prepare a talk for a national conference I'm speaking at in Melbourne later this month. But after that, straight back to it!

[alpineart]

Just got a bit sick and tired of parking my butt on the chair , not that it happens much . With the help of the wife i slip potted this Spruce

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in readiness for its first training season .This was quite simple as the plastic pot was well tapered so it basically slipped out .

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I simply teased the roots out round the top , with a slight trim is was back into a 450mm black plastic pot .

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This can settle for a week then a trim and shape of the lower trunk . The layer will have to stay on for possible another 2 years so no good wasting time , might as well make a trainer out of the base now .Not a great deal to work with but the challenge is there . Number 2 will happen tomorrow with a couple of good blows with a block splitter or sledge hammer it should make for a quick removal .The pot is bowl shaped so its almost impossible to save the pot , too much like hard work

Cheers Alpineart

[alpineart]

Well i decide i just couldn't smash the pot so i whipped out the 235mm angle grinder with a diamond cutting wheel in cut the pot on an angle of about 30 degree's .

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This means i can carve the pot into an unusual crescent pot . The tree was simply tilted over and out it came

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.I used the "Simple slip potting" method to slice the root ball

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and then raked out the roots and potted it onto a 450mm plastic pot

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.Now it can spread itself out in the pot and grow on .I will pre trim and style the lower trunk similar to the number 1 tree.

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This tree has more scope and branches to work with so it will no doubt be a bigger project .Many thanks to my wife for all her help to get the task done , considering she has taken a 2 weeks break from work to make sure I'm not over doing the recovery rate expected by the surgeons without her help no repotting would have taken place . .That's it for the big tree's now onto a few little ones .

Cheers Alpineart

[alpineart]

I thought i had plenty to do , but no time like the present to get into these 2 Norway Spruce Trunks . I needed to utilize a branch

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for a thread graft and an upper branch for the new apex on the smaller 50mm trunk

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. A trim of the foliage and its ready for some wiring .

The 70mm trunk was trimmed back harder than originally done after purchase ,

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and had new wire tourniquet's applied to the stubs to prevent bleeding or sap lose .

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These stubs while numerous will be jinned as per original design plan , there a quite a few along the trunk .Trimmed and ready for wiring which will happen over the next week or so.

Cheers Alpineart

[alpineart]

Been slack as with these Spruce ,

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so i thought i should take a gander at the layers and remove them

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.The larger of the two

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is a fantastic result considering the knockers

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said they don't layer . Well down under in Australia they do .After a quick rake and trim

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remove the unwanted branches

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its into the pot

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The base was also root pruned with the aid of a handsaw

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to make it easier then potted up

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Now 2 for the price of one is a good deal

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The smaller one which was infested with curl grub unfortunately didn't re-sprout roots even though i did a re-pot layer on it , however the callous grew over the wire and completely cover the ring bark . No doubt if i left it on for another season it would surely throw the roots out with a new ring bark and tourniquet applied . Times a wasting so i have simply severed it as rubbish and will work on the original trunk another day .

Cheers Alpineart.

[Barry1]

Hell mate how many hours a day are you at this what with this project and the Junipers and the wonky knee and the rest of your trees you must be on something

Cheers
Barry

[alpineart]

Hi Barry , mate i had withdrawals when the site went down so i got my shari togther i put in the hard yards . I've been informed by my wife , i only have 10 day before the butchers have another looky see at this dicky leg .They stuffed it , hope they can fix it . The Hacker had me running around the hills on crutches searching for yamadori 6-7 months ago . Adrenalin is a powerful but useful natural stimulant or is that insanity ? , Faith can move mountains , i just need the shovel . I may need to adapt a fork lift to the ride on mower for future movement of these wee tree's . I'll give up when i pushing daisies , here for a good time , not a long time .

Cheers Alpine