AusBonsai

While driving around yesterday i thought i'd stop in on a local nursery that have a few bonsai for sale.
i hadn't been there for a few years so didnt know what to expect. As i drove in i could see that the place was pretty run down
with most of the plants looking pretty bad. I had a quick scout around and noticed a a big bunch of elm leaves,
on closer inspection i finally found the trunk following it down to the pot i noticed it had fallen over and was now laying on its side.
I grabbed the pot to pull in out put couldnt i noticed there were 2 large roots that had broken through the pot and were now firmly
rooted in the ground. i called over the owner and asked how much he wanted for the tree(no marked prices) $300 he said,
i had a light chuckle , he came back with the pruners and we cut off the roots.
Needless to say i walked out of there with the elm, after getting the price down to $200 cash
details of the tree are
600mm high from top of pot
50mm across the trunk
500mm across the tree

here's a few pics of the tree. cheers
Strawbs

Strawbs .... This guy has ripped you off big time and I hate to see that. No one else has replied because they might offend you. This piece of stock is worth no more than $20 to be used as a ground layer because the nebari is dreadful. Anyone who sells stuff like this should take stock of themselves. You have been seduced by the full tree thick trunk syndrome which is prevalent in the early years of bonsai. What a cheek selling it in a black nursery pot without any pretence of even passing it off as bonsai. Take it back and tell him you have done him a favour repotting it and get your money back.


Ash

Hate to say I kinda agree

Hi,

I agree with Ash. But then, we all have our early days and paid too much for something, right?

I suggest you to clarify your ideas about a good surface roots (nebari). In Chinese, we always said that the ideal surface root should be a "eight-direction root". ie. the roots radiating to all direction around the tree base (esp so in case of Formal and Informal upright). This gives the tree a feeling of age, stability and it's tenacity to adhere to the earth to survive the nature.

I think whenever we make a purchase, we should value the tree by this priority: Root, Trunk then Foliage. It is not a rigid rule but a good guideline.

If you are in Sydney, I suggest you to visit RayNesci in Dural. Ray and Clinton are relaxed and helpful and you can stroll thro the nursery and look at hundreds of stock tree of different species and explore at you own pace. They got all species labelled and with clear price on it. I found it very rewarding in my early days in Bonsai just to look at different species and learn. When you got a question, Ask Ray or Clinton, they will help. More importantly, in you case, you will know what type of Elms $300 or $200 can buy. Ray's prices are very fair.

Or you can go to BonsaiSouth in Caringbah. The stock trees there are pricey and limited in variety compare to RayNesci. But you will see some of the best Ficus and Podocarpus on display and some textbook styled JBP (ie appealing to the general public.) Just prepare to be amazed

Bonbon wrote: Or you can go to BonsaiSouth in Caringbah. The stock trees there are pricey and limited in variety compare to RayNesci.

But Leong's tree's are higher quality than Ray's.

I agree with everyone: you paid far too much for this tree. Plain Chinese elms are bl..dy weeds, they self seed like crazy and grow like mad. I know, I've got a big one in the garden and umpteen small ones that grew wild.
In your place, I'd go back to that nurseryman and have a friendly little chat with him, telling him about the feedback you got and letting him know that a rip off like that doesn't do his business any good, as news gets around. Shame him into giving you another tree, free of charge! I am quite serious, and it's what I would do myself.
BTW, you must have had a bonsai glimmer in your eye when you picked up that tree, something which is to be avoided at all costs.

Root growth on elms is considerable, you can correct the roots easily on yours if you do it gradually, over 2 - 3 years. Watch out with the branching, you tend to get the thickest branches high up, where they don't belong. Cut them off and they will be replaced by young ones soon enough. Full sun, hey? Or you might get a kind of rust on the leaves in your environment. Go slow with the fertiliser.
In five years' time you'll have yourself a beaut bonsai.

Lisa

ash you are a true gentleman. i applaud you for your honesty. i wasnt so concerned about offending strawbs as i was getting some nursery mans nose out of joint. ya never know who's peepin round the corner here.damn straight this guy should not be allowed to get away with it. strawbs dont take s#8t from him. stawbs also this was not a good time to do a repot on a deciduous. they should be done late winter to early spring depending on specie and location.
being a chinese elm you might probably get away with it. the beginning of any carving should always be done in its dormant time (winter). detailing existing deadwood is ok any time as long as you're not tampering with any live tissue. good luck pal
oops sorry i think the carving question was a different post

[quote=" i wasnt so concerned about offending strawbs as i was getting some nursery mans nose out of joint. ya never know who's peepin round the corner.


Antonio i don't see this person as being a serious contender in the nursery game by any stretch of the imagination. To even contemplate selling rubbish like this to a member of the bonsai community and thinking they can get away with it beggars belief.

[/quote] As i drove in i could see that the place was pretty run down
with most of the plants looking pretty bad.

Strawbs we the members are only looking after your best interests here. It is a good indication that if the venue is as you describe then caveat emptor (buyer beware) is a good guide unless you are getting marginal stock at a very good price.



Ash

Ouch what a sh#t head of a dealer. I could even hazard a guess who it was about 20 minuets from Ray Nesci. I live on the other side of the continent.
Chinese elms are considered unkillable by most enthusiasts here.
I have worked on them at all times of the year Re potting them in the middle of Summer and Winter. Also at the optimum times. With no ill affects. In fact one of the things I did today was carve out the trunk of one today. This particular one I was going to put on the raffle table tomorrow night but changed my mind. It has a 75mms base and is 330mms high it cost $50-00. 5 years ago inflation has certainly got your one. After all the advice and criticism of the vendor. All I can add is buyer beware, in future look more carefully. What I would suggest is you to a nursery crawl looking at what is on offer and compare value.
Join a club and get yourself a Bonsai buddy. Above all else do not be put off by these comments. I for one can remember where I started, and what I got to start with. Some of it was pure s#ite. Over the years I have tried very hard to put younger, enthusiasts on the right path, some times with a lot of frustration. I will continue to frustrate my self so good luck. Pup

Asus101 wrote:

Bonbon wrote: Or you can go to BonsaiSouth in Caringbah. The stock trees there are pricey and limited in variety compare to RayNesci.

But Leong's tree's are higher quality than Ray's.

I cautiously agree with a little reservation that Leong's tree is of better quality(at a price), if you can find your favourite species.
But for a beginner to explore and learn. RayNesci is more suitable.

Gday Guy's and Girls,
thanks for the straight up comments no offence taken, im a big boy and can take it, ive heard worse,i have red hair
as for the price im not that worried ( the win on the horse's paid for it) .
Ash i intend to ground layer the tree and get rid of the 3 large roots over the coming years.
about the seller, (he's not near Ray) im from the northen beaches , hes been around for quite awhile but not as
a 'bonsai seller' more like a nursery with 'trees in pots', i went to his old place when i was 10 and bought my first juniper.
any which way im not to fussed, i doubt ill be back.
got a day off tomorrow so im going out to bonsaisouth and Ray's will see what my $200 could have got me.
cheers
strawbs

Hi All

Sorry to say Strawbs, I agree with the other guys, I think the nursery should be named so that there is no inuendo to which nursery has no morals & that the others can still be trusted.
Can everyone please refrain from pointing blame at nurserys until we discover just who it was.

As for the quality of Bonsai nurseries in Sydney they all have good & bad points but remember that they are trying to make a living during hard times, just coming out from water restrictions & into economic instability, they also have families to feed.

Strawbs, if the nursery refunds your money, come by my place & pick up a large elm that is worth the money.

Cheers
Skip

Thanks for the offer Skip! ill be sure to take u up on that. PM me.
there aint to many bonsai nursery's over this side, BonsaiArt Megumi's nursery and Bonsai artist-tree Lee Wilsons nursery.
both have served me well but the one in question is a out of the way sort of locals only know about it place, so dont worry
i dont think it will be around for long, going on the state it was in.