AusBonsai

We have seen some advice from various sources for very heavy feeding recently. Keeping in mind fertilisation is part of a whole media/substrate and watering schedule I would like to hear members recent encounters with heavy fertilisation.
Has anyone pushed the limits to the wrong side of extreme lately?

All I heard recently about heavy feding still had me holding back, more than ever, on my cold climate trees last season and I was rewarded with the best set of leaves into Autumn for at least a few years.
I am keen to step up he fert with many other species but wonder if any members would share experience of pushing it too far. It has been a long time since I thought I killed a tree from over fertilising. Has anyone seen the brink it can be pushed to and saved the tree?

I would like to hear what people have to say about this too. I think in the past I have been scared of over-fertilizing to the point where I probably fertilized too little. Of course the answer will probably come back that different species need different regimes, so how about those deciduous plants Bretts mentioned, and then how about coniferous and tropical (ficus)?

Well its all about mediums and fertilizers .If you have an open free draining mix then power feedings won't kill tree's unless you border on stupidity with fertilizers .I have been power feeding all my tree's with numerous methods and materials for many years , if the mix is retaining excessive amounts of moisture in any way it will result in a fertilizer build up , and no doubt kill any plant . If i have an open mix the fert's are flushed through and away in a very short period unless a slow release fertilizer is used .I have and do use some slow release ferts however i still power feed over and above with seasol power feed {green bottle}.The only casualties this season are 1 year old cuttings and most of these would have to be Crab Apples in small bonsai pots or containers .I haven't kill any that are ground growing cuttings . My fertilizer regime is the same for bonsai trainers to ground growing seedlings and tree's irrespective of the species .

The medium for growing is now set in my area/climate after testing for the last decade or so trialing numerous combinations and mediums using scoria and pine bark , a slightly different ratio is used as well as material size for pots and species , but basically the same free draining mix will be utilized from now on .I have never tried a bonsai mix or any other commercial bonsai additives recommended for growing bonsai , how my feeding regime would work using these additives is untested .I have found if i get heavy handed with any granular fertilizers that they tend to turn the top of the mix a whitish colour which is basically a build up of minerals as i see it ?.

The last 2 seasons i used Brunnings tomato and vegetable starter fertilizer monthly and seasol power feed fortnightly and that made for good results however its time consuming with so many plants .This year i have trialed Campbells Rustica Plus with a 4-6 weekly dose of seasol {white bottle} .The results were better than the last 2 seasons however i contribute this ti the Rustica not the Seasol . While a test and retest all my methods over a couple of seasons this year has been extremely wet and mild .The results are non conclusive of the normal seasons we have up hear . When a test is set i used several hundred plants not half a dozen as this doesn't give a good uniform indication as to how well things perform .

Example NO 1 / I have 20 JBP trainers all of which were purchased from Shibui Nursery , i'm assuming from the same seed stock and of the same age , growing in the same medium and with the same fertilizer /watering and sunlight yet they have all performed differently .Some are in training for root over rock some are in large plastic pots each situation is different and the results are different . All 20 plants were roots pruned the same size , wired the same fashion yet they did not give a uniform result ,20 plants won't give a good indication, 200 will give a much better more uniform result "Pro or Con" wise .

Example NO 2 / Last season i grew 2000 trident maples using the seasol power feed and tomato starter fertilizer ,they average 300-600mm in height , temps were 10-15 degree's hotter .This year i grew 1000 Trident maples they average 600mm- 1100mm using Rustica . The same growing bed was used which is basically 200mm of blended mediums based on a clay platform with 10 degree's slope for drainage .Again these results are non conclusive from year to year or fert to fert as the seasons were completely different , being wetter this year and much milder .Next season i may repeat both tests in the same area's using 50%of the tridents for the Rustica Test AND 50% for the seasol powerfeed and tomato starter test ..

Basically after all this dribble what i'm saying is if your killing plants with power feeding then your NOT power feeding you are over fertilizing .Cheers Alpineart

I do not powerfeed as such once per fortnight I use Phostrogen (Yates flower and fruit is a substitute) on all my plants on the alternate week I use powerfeed ( seasol powerfeed) on the natives, and azaleas I alternate,per fortnight with Miraclegro for Azaleas and Camellias.

I think that trees that are being developed need more feeding than trees that are more or less in the finished mode by this I mean they are developed so as you do not need to push for growth.

As in Will Baddeley's tree that is being developed.

Just my I had to double up as it is a powerfeed post Pup

If heavy feeding is to work properly, a balanced relationsip needs to exist between container, media, water and quantity, type and duration of feed applied. An important aspect that a lot of people overlook when feeding their trees agressively in order to obtain fast growth, presumably for adding mass to a tree, is the need for established root systems to utilise and distribute the added nutrient to the trees above ground parts.

For most species, a season or two in order to establish a well distributed and vigorous root system is a good investment, then accelerate growth and add muscle to a trunk by feeding heavily.

Cheers,
Mojo

Thanks for all the interesting replies. Alot of food for thought.
I guess no one has had a tree die just after fertilising? I wonder if anyone can be sure over fertilising was the cause of death if that's not the case?

I had a cumquat loose half its leaves and try damn hard to die, after I put some solid citrus food on top of the pot. First and last time I put it on - they certainly weren't used to it.

Still can't get the damn thing to flower, maybe because I prune in spring. Trying a late summer prune on one this year.

Gavin

I lost a few trees in the same year when I used a granular Phostrogen feed that was sprinkled on the soil. Their demise was pretty rapid too. Full strength soluble feed after watering and no ill effects at all.
This isn't just about trees in development either. Trees can easily become weak in the lower branches as they ramify. The friends that recommended this heavier feeding regime to me, also feed their well ramified trees like this. The only difference being that the more established trees get extending growth trimmed earlier in the season and earlier when extending after defoliation.

An interesting phenomena has happened with my big English Elm that i defoliated twice since last summer and powerfed it by having continuous organic fertiliser laying on the surface. It has not turned and has hung onto its green leaves. Every other Elm has turned brilliant yellow and dropped its leaves and are now bare but the big Elm is just sitting there with a full complement of leaves Very strange, I hope it turns soon and i have not pushed it to far. I would be hugely disappointed if i have exhausted it or worse, changed its natural growth habit.

Hi Bodhi , very interesting . I have been power feeding Japanese and trident maples , both ground growing and container growing . The large garden trees and Ebay tree that i layered off have basically dropped all the leaves , however the power fed plants are just turning with the mojority of them still growing strong .I put it down to a combination of power feeding and trimming . Shibui spoke about these maples on his visit here .At his place they skipped the dormancy/leaf drop and grew through the winter because of the trimming and cutting back that was done on his Trident Maples .I have chop topped "With hedge trimmer" about 1000 various aged maples to promote side branching lower down , however the tridents that weren't chopped are also still green , growing in the same bed . So maybe its mother nature confused or the power feeding ? We have a week of -2 degree's overnight coming on now so i will hopefully get a change in attitude from these plants .Cheers Alpine

. So maybe its mother nature confused or the power feeding ? We have a week of -2 degree's overnight coming on now so i will hopefully get a change in attitude from these plants .Cheers Alpine

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I hope we are not confusing Mother Nature with our actions Alpine Hard to find that fine balance between being over the top or nicely balanced. I guess we are already going against Mother Nature by confining trees to pots This would lead to the question of how much trees feed in their natural enviroment. Bugger, my head hurts

Are you saying that you can defoliate twice a year Bodhidharma? Summers are too short over here for that. I reckon your second leaf prune is too immature to go through the normal Autumn phase. I would carry on with feeding to restore strength and fatten next years buds.

will baddeley wrote:Are you saying that you can defoliate twice a year Bodhidharma? Summers are too short over here for that. I reckon your second leaf prune is too immature to go through the normal Autumn phase. I would carry on with feeding to restore strength and fatten next years buds.

We have a long growing season here Will and, yes, i can defoliate twice a year with ease. I did an experiment on an E.E and that was posted on this site. That tree has produced new buds as normal. Our Elms will harden of after defoliation and can then be done again. i also root pruned it. I personally would recommend doing it every third year and the tree would have to be healthy.

Bod, just curious, why are you defoliating?
Wood

Hey Bodi, I know you are not great at finding your threads so I searched it up for you and others. It would be great if you could update how this tree is going through Autumn.
viewtopic.php?f=129&t=7459

Gary, I believe some of the reason for defoliating the English elm is to avoid them going dormant (in leaf) over the entire growing season. What I and others found (including Will from memory) was that they would leaf out full of vigor but then just stop like a mid Summer dormancy and never really put on any more growth for the entire season. Even if I gave mine a good trim they pretty well stay dormant.
The idea of defoliating was discussed to force the tree out of this apparent dormancy.
Will, Some people in Australia with our long hot Summers have started doing multiple deflorations on some species.(I think alot of credit for this goes to Don Deluca ) Most notable the Ash tree (Fraxinus) which is being defoliated about 5 times a season I believe with very impressive results.

Here are a couple of threads by Grant that discuss this.
viewtopic.php?f=129&t=4827&hilit=defoliate
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8119&p=90505