AusBonsai

hi guys,

im looking for a general guide to collecting plants to give them the best chance of surviveing.

Im sure other people have been in the same boat where it hasnt been the best time to collect, where there is no time to take good root systems, or simply not possible.

just wondering what tips and advice people have for giving a plant the best chance of survival even if you have to be brutal to get them out.

i have seen some people cutting the tree off to NO foliage, so it is just a stump mostly, what is the object of this?

any advice would be appreciated.

gareth

I have also been wondering what species can be flat cut like olives

http://sandevbonsai.blogspot.com/2010/1 ... art-i.html

http://sandevbonsai.blogspot.com/2010/1 ... -part.html

discussion:
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/bonsa ... -t4661.htm

Gawd Asus, Cant you summurise the content of them for us?

With Deciduous, i beleive it is best to defioliate or cut back real hard, to stop the tree from trying to put growth into the foliage instead of roots

For Pines and Junis, you shodu not cut back foliage, as it helps promote new root growth. Also these trees will not shoot back from bare wood, so do not cut back too much at all

Ken

kcpoole wrote:Gawd Asus, Cant you summurise the content of them for us?

its a video.....

Asus101 wrote:

kcpoole wrote:Gawd Asus, Cant you summurise the content of them for us?

its a video.....

touché

Some experts recommend spending 3-4 years removing a tree.

1st year dig a moat around the plant 50cm from trunk, 20cm deep. Fill with mix to encourage sideways root growth.

2nd year dig moat back up and starting at one side, cut downward roots only, trying to get under the sideways ones you have grown. Add more fresh mix and fill moat again.

3rd year dig moat back up, cut downwards roots again but this time severe the tap root. Fill moat back up.

4th year remove the plant.

5th year, realise the tree next to it had more character and start again.



Some experts recommend just yankin' it out. Each to their own I guess.

I subscribe to the 'just yank it out', as I generally stick to uprooting a tree//sapling during late winter//early spring..
(just like a re-pot..)
I guess if u get a tree thats really quite special and u don't want to risk 'yank' , then building up to removing it whether 2, 3 or 4 years
could be great advise.
The 'after-yank' treatment is usaully worm juice//seasol, and into a 'trainer', sticking to gen. rule of pruning deciduos and leaving pine foliage,
as per previous post
I reckon best advise is get in and give it a go, on some more hardy species first (ie maples, elms).. i have found azaleas a little 'touchy',
and have not had a rosemary survive yet..( 0 from 3..), but u learn a lot from practice
Matt.

What species are we collecting it does make a big difference.
Some are very easy other's need the slowly slowly approach. I have never subscribed to the YANK it brigade, it is always best to dig carefully and get as much of the soil that you can carry.
Olives are the exception as with Ficus in general. After care, as with all root work is very important, make sure they do not dry out, and that you clean up all dead and broken roots. Foliage reduction depends on species.
The coniferous family do not like to much reduction as has been pointed out. Also some of our Natives, thinning out more so than reduction. Large unusable branch removal yes.

Cheers Pup

5th year, realise the tree next to it had more character and start again.

Love that one!

Asus101 wrote:

kcpoole wrote:Gawd Asus, Cant you summurise the content of them for us?

its a video.....

Havn't you heard of subtitles! they can be summarised

Matt Jermy wrote: I reckon best advise is get in and give it a go, on some more hardy species first (ie maples, elms).. i have found azaleas a little 'touchy',
and have not had a rosemary survive yet..( 0 from 3..), but u learn a lot from practice
Matt.

Watch those video's. I really strongly suggest this.... Very important points brought up!
Edit post.

Specially for the lazy ones who love to post but can't be bothered to do any usefull browsing:
http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATcoll ... 20Pall.htm
That's Walter Pall's advice on collecting, in 3 parts, on the Bonsai4me website.

Anyway, Gareth asked this:

Im sure other people have been in the same boat where it hasnt been the best time to collect, where there is no time to take good root systems, or simply not possible.

If it's not the best time to collect, don't collect, unless it's a very exceptional tree and you know all about its post-collection care.
If there's no time to take a good root system on a plant that abdsolutely needs it, don't collect.
If it's not possible, it's not possible.

With Deciduous, i beleive it is best to defioliate or cut back real hard, to stop the tree from trying to put growth into the foliage instead of roots

With deciduous, you don't collect when the plant is in leaf. See Walter Pall.
For this thread: See Pup.

It really does depend on the species. I collect most of the year but mainly in early spring and place the newly dug trees under 50% shadecloth until their new shoots start lengthening. Here are my guides but everyone does things differently.

Conifers - for large trees, take the time to do it properly (2 years) and place the newly dug tree in pure sand and keep it wet. Give it some seaweed extract every now and then. Small trees can be 'yanked' but follow the same above for potting.
Olives - I can't get along with them, they die easily for me. I have the best results if I cut of nearly all the foliage when dug. They are best placed in the ground after digging and forgotten for a couple of months.
Large natives - follow the two year plan, Make sure they have good roots.
Oaks - dig when they are popping open their buds in spring, not before. Larger ones can sulk for the first year.
Elms - Tough buggers, try to get some feeder roots on suckering types as they sometimes don't have much. Pretty easy to dig and keep alive.
Prunus - dig in early spring. Don't let them sucker while they are recovering.
Malus - can show good signs of life then suddenly die. Make sure you get good roots and don't keep them wet while recovering. They can take more moisture when they have good roots.
Hawthorn - Easy to dig and keep alive. Larger ones may sulk for a few months but then spring to life.
Wisteria - Dig before bud burst in early spring. Keep wet.
Willow - as above or take large cuttings any time.
Poplar - as with willow.

Other stuff - dig in early spring, place in lightly shaded area until showing signs of life and hope for the best. Water with seaweed extract occassionally, then fertilise when they are showing strong root growth.

About above posts - wild grown trees generally have their feeder roots growing well out from the canopy so it is impossible to dig them with many feeder roots. Most of the roots you see when you dig are just channels. As long as the channel roots are fairly young, they can grow new feeders. Using the two year method is the best way of developing feeder roots close to the trunk for safer digging.

Cheers,
Rowan

Rowan,

Thanks for the excellant guide. I often see young trees/seedlings at friends' farms but often wasn't confident as how best to tacke the removal.
I also know realise why the pines never survived their re-location (no haircuts!!)

In Nov'08 I was allowed to take whatever plants were left in the garden of an old unit being demolished. It had 3 big roses bushes at the front, a 7 foot azalea at the side and lots of other smaller stuff. The azalea had roots that spread under the unit and was too hard to remove in one lot & the roses weren't any better! I was thown in the deep end with a time limit of a couple of days - got all the smaller stuff out first but couldn't even budge the big stuff. I paid the demolition guy with liquid gold, he excavated the roses (4-5 foot diameter) with his machine & placed them in my ute. The azalea we had to break up into three pieces. It also went into the ute then they all enjoyed a 110km/hr scenic drive in the country, wind 'blowing in their hair' back home!

Once home all the plants were placed 'on a pot' & the roots were trimmed until the plant slid into the pot. I pulled it out, trimmed back a little more to allow for a layer of dirt down the sides, then potted them up. They're all doing fine and the azalea throws magnificent flowers - I'm looking forward to working on it once I've developed my skills a bit more.