AusBonsai

Hi Folks

I have two variegated Japanese Maples that need reducing in height drastically to start as potential bonsai. I realise that they are grafted because they are weak growers on their own roots. However is there any point in air layering the top off and growing it on it's own roots as it seems such a waste of three quarters of the plant.

I will post pictures of the two and would appreciate your input on a starting point.

Fred

Hi Fred it all depends on how good the grafts are and how long you are prepared to wait for their impact to lessen. I know a person who has a collection full of grafted palmatums and some of them are very fine trees but she has been growing them for many many years.
Craigw
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I have 2 Grafted Dissected Maples, and the grafts are quite unobtrusive.

1 is Quite a taller tree and I was thinking of Airlayering 1/2 way up the trunk ( still using the good understock) just to shorten it, As the tree is a Weeping variety anyway, I have decided to keep it quite tall and just grow the branches longer to make it more into proportion.

the other is an Acer Palmatum "Seiryu", that I have taken cutting from, and seems to be doing OK on their own roots.


Try taking a cutting and see how it goes, as this will indicate whether an layer onto its own stok will be OK

the other way is to do your own Grafts with branches and graft them onto normal Acre understock, but then you will be able to control the location and appearance of them

Ken

Hi Ken and Craigw

Thanks for your advice.

I have attached some pics. Suggestions of how low to cut them would be appreciated.

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Hi Ken & Craigw

Could you please also advise a front for the two cultivars. This part disappeared from my last reply.

Fred

nice trees fred, acer p. shirazz is a great looking variety, does anyone know if it's in australia yet

I do not particularly like the bend just above the grafts as it makes then a little hard to style

With both tho you could use the first shots, and tilt to the side so the old stock trunk is on the lower side, Then cut back hard to the first branch.

Hopefully you can start to build some taper and movement in the trees

Its always worth trying grafted varieties on their own roots. Often it does not work but sometimes they are fine. Like Ken, I have grown 'Seryu' as cuttings and it is quite vigorous. Seedlings from Seryu are also very vigorous though you rarely get the fine divided leaves.
The bends where these were grafted will grow out given time and if the trees are allowed to thicken a bit. I'd also use these as the initial bends in the future trunk which means the next bend (which would be where I would cut it back to) needs to be reasonably close above the existing bend/ graft - How brave are you feeling?

I have had success with .."Mikawe yatsabusa".. with the drilling of holes and inserting toothpick technique. The trees roots system had no merit at all. I got a fine lot of roots and have severed it and it is doing fine. Now, do you think i can get a layer or cuttings from this tree..NO WAY.. i have tried for two seasons before i went for the toothpick method. i chose this method over a layer because of the lack of success of other methods. If somebody can explain that one to me i am all ears.

"Shishigashira" grows well from a layering, but get the thickest trunk you can find from the start, they are slow. Senkaki seems OK from layering.

A fine-leaf variety on the other hand (can't remember the name) has just sulked for years after layering.

Some of the variegated types are particularly prone to keeling over from fungal diseases, and are better grafted on seedling roots.

One useful tactic can be to layer just under the graft, so you keep the vigour from the root-stock, but lose the ugliness underneath. If there's an nasty post-graft swing to the trunk, try angling the layering line, so that the swing can take off sideways, and look like you meant it all along.

While some dissectums get quite thick branches in the ground, I've found the seedlings just won't fatten. Nice literati types, but I was hoping for something more solid.

How do you get maple cuttings to work? What season, what treatment, what incantations/pleading/vicious threats do you use? Tried for years, never a glimmer of joy.

Good luck.

Gavin

sorry gavin i cant give any tips on maple cuttings cause i think its a waste of time, because they graft so easy. for maples intended for bonsai i do a (whip and tongue graft) in winter with a success of 95% and there is NO ugly bend or bulge. there is only a slight colour change where the graft is but that goes away in a few seasons so its just a matter of doing the graft low enough to the roots so its all natural! kinda.

I have grown from seed one Atropurpureum , two Seryu which don't look alike and two Dissectum which just popped out recently. The Seryu are both outta control with vigor, one has fine leaf and the other looks almost like a standard Acer palmatum but both have good Autumn colour. The two dissectum will be interesting , one is normal with opposite leaves and the other has alternate at the moment but a little slow out of the gates. The Atro I am not sure about. I think it would have to be a large Bonsai if it is to work.