AusBonsai

Yesterday day I heard a comment that took me by surprise. That unless you can grow a Pine, when you say I can style one, you are fooling yourself.

Most plants can be grown by just water and nutrient supplied by the grower. Are pines different? I have made the statement that the culture of Pines IE needle plucking strong growth areas needle reduction, is the culture of Pines.

I am not a full authority on that part of Pine, but I can and have successfully styled Pines. What are the thoughts of the Pine Gurus among us.

I know we have some very authoritative members here so I would like to hear from them on this question. It is a bit like unless you can draw you cannot make a good Bonsai.

I cannot draw other than matchstick type so does that mean the Bonsai I have are no good. I am very interested in answering this.

Both these comments come from ( professionals ) one a nurseryman and the other an Author.

Cheers Pup

Pup, I thought growing and styling are two different concepts. When you look at it closely, you dont need to be good at one skill to be good at the other. Having said this, Im not sure what the context of the original conversation was about. If it was in the context of the overall taking care and owning one's own pine bonsai, then perhaps they have a point. In any case, if you live in the right areas, most variety of pine trees are really easy to grow. Perhaps, as you mentioned, theyre talking about the cultural aspects of pine growing such as needle plucking, back budding, bud selection and reduction etc.

Hi Pup,

The interesting thing about growing pines, especially Japanese Black pines, is that the more you know, the more you know you don't know. Each time you reach a certain level of expertise there is another level you can aspire to, or you find another way of doing this or that better.

They are a most interesting and confounding tree at the same time.

They are simple and complicated at the same time.

They are complex but not difficult at the same time.

Etc.

I once heard there are 88 ways to style a black pine.

I can only draw so so but do use it as a tool to sort out some plants.

Grant

Designing tree's is the shaping of them, growing them is keeping them alive and healthy, the culture is the refinement.
The person was talking of the culture, such as needle pruning, and the timing of such tasks.

For what purpose, these tasks are carried out and at what time. I see the relevance of needing to know these points to have a nice tree.
I do not see where the comment of if you cant do this you cannot style the tree, Is relevant.
You can put the basic shape in the tree, then learn the refinement culture

Most people learn how to style the pines before they learn the culture, so are they fooling themselves?
I would say that 99 percent of the people here learned,to style their tree's before they learned the proper culture.
Therefor the refinement phase of Bonsai.
Which is what takes time, the most often asked question in Pine culture is how do I reduce the needles. As I said at the opening I am not a Pine person.
The one thing that is common with all tree's is the development, it is the first thing we need to do. The reduction of needles and leaves come later.


So my interpretation was the cart before the horse. So learn the refinement culture then style your trees.
JMHO Pup

Hi Grant, Could not agree more
john m

With a beginner I usually encourage them to get two pines.

One to put into a bonsai pot and get some basic styling going and learning how to handle them.

One to put in the ground or grow on for a few years.

Then once you have learnt how to grow one in a basic manner you can start on another with some of the lessons learnt. Your first pine bonsai usually isn't anything to write home about.

The controlling and managing of the vigour of the Black pine then becomes important; and where all the tricks and techniques come in.

I am just about to head out for dinner so I won't be around for a while.

Grant

Grant Bowie wrote:Hi Pup,

The interesting thing about growing pines, especially Japanese Black pines, is that the more you know, the more you know you don't know. Each time you reach a certain level of expertise there is another level you can aspire to, or you find another way of doing this or that better.

They are a most interesting and confounding tree at the same time.

They are simple and complicated at the same time.

They are complex but not difficult at the same time.

Etc.

I once heard there are 88 ways to style a black pine.

I can only draw so so but do use it as a tool to sort out some plants.

Grant

Now isnt this the paradox of life. Pines are the same as our lives in that the older we get the more paradoxical life is. Couldnt agree more Grant. To add to that...The more you work with a pine the more you love it and dislike it at the same time