AusBonsai

I'm getting less and less tolerant of Neat Thick Foliage Pads that look they've just come back from the hairdresser, stuck incongruously on top of a lovely wild old trunk. (Ducks for cover...)

So I've tried to make the foliage on this Kunzea ambigua look as if it just grew naturally out of the branches that grew the same way from the trunk. I've taken a lot of care to open the foliage out, so the trunk-branch-leaves relationships become part of the story, and to look as if "that's just the way it happened." It didn't. I've selectively pruned very carefully, and a number of branches have been wired, but there's more to do - there's a C-curve branch in the top left that needs funking up, and the top right needs to come in closer to everything else. The trunk is clearer in real life, all rough bark and crisp angles. This species keeps throwing out long low extensions each year that are often more interesting than anything I come up with, given a little gentle redirection - I suspect the form of this tree will continue to be fluid for many years. If I show it, the soil surface will be covered with cut-up dried leaves and small twigs, to look like the native forest floor.
Up for discussion.

Gavin

Looks like good material BUT needs a lot of work.

I agree with everything you've just said Gav. I love PeterH's work and I can understand why he'd say that.
But as I get older, I always look at peoples updates and proud posts of their 'before and after' updates. And yet nearly every time I see a 'professional' or a visiting practitioner to a club state how proud they are of their 'before and after', I nearly always think the before looks beautiful and natural with only a few tweaks required. Nearly all practising professionals suffer from this horrid affliction.

Well if Patmet doesn't want it I'll gladly take it off your hands.

I feel like I'm being called out

It's an interesting tree Gavin. I've actually been thinking about this topic a lot lately with the release of Stephen Cullum's new book on styling Australian natives. I haven't read his previous book, and only recently heard of him and listened to a talk he gave in Victoria.

I agree with a lot he talks about but not everything. I also have Dan Robinson's book and feel similar. I find his approach interesting and inspiring in many ways, but not necessarily how I want to work with my trees.

As for my thoughts on this tree. I like the concept and the general structure, but for me the branching falls a little too far to the messy side. I know you're going for the rugged and natural look, but I personally think that when there's not enough balance between chaos and order you lose some of the illusion of scale and age.

Not a criticism, just my seeing as you have asked for discussion. I have only been doing bonsai somewhere between 5-6 years, so still very young in my journey. I'm sure my style and approach will change through the years.

I don't get annoyed with how people style their trees as it's up to them and how they like their trees to look. I will just think about how I would do it differently if it were my tree.

Also Rory I think it's a beautiful thing for people to be proud or their work no matter what stage they are at - Professional or beginner. It's all part of the joy of practicing bonsai. There should be room for a diverse range of styles and interpretations to keep things interesting.

Interesting thoughts.... however an example to me is the thread on this site about Gardening Australia. The gentleman was really lovely and would be such a nice guy to have a beer with. But his statement saying that he now prides himself on only having natural looking trees, is far from what I saw. I still saw trees that don't look natural to me.
I have purchased Stephen's book on natives and have had a fair squiz at it.
Its interesting what he says about a lot of it. However, the talk that was shared online of a presentation he gave has a sticking point that I strongly disagree with. I prefer to let the tree dictate what it does and wants to do, (provided it looks natural). Having said that, I wouldn't allow a tree to grow vertically upwards all over a tree, as you also have to allow for the fact that the small bonsai doesn't feel its reached its potential and will shoot for the stars of course. But its more so when you allow it to grow unchecked for a while, it can present beautiful natural structures that you would never in a million years conntemplate.

I'm not saying that peoples versions of their before and after is poor.... What I was saying was that they are so often grown as contrived meticulous caricatures of a tree, but yet are often described by the owner as being natural.... and thats what erks me.

Great, very lively tree! -- I only have a problem with the pot, beautiful though it is. In the design of the tree, the creamy white, beautifully curved roots of the nebari, plus the straight descending branch on the left of the same colour, plus another, smaller one higher up, again light, are partly deprived of their importance by the pot, which attracts a lot of attention -- too much, i.m.h.o.
It makes me yearn for less glaze and a more reserved colour at the foot of this lovely Kunzea.

Lisa

I'll put myself up in the line of fire ... while I feel I can appreciate very deliberate styling, it's not my thing.

The "rugged natural" look is difficult to achieve on a smaller scale. A big tree in "the wild" isn't refined up close, but from a distance, the wildness averages out the shape of the canopy to a similar look a lot of people aim to style as.

I do like what Gavin is doing ... but think a big tree in the wild wouldn't look as "bushy" as this, would it Gavin?

I like it. It’s trying something off-piste and with character. Given that the discussion is open - I think you could open up the structure by jinning or removing the top right and centre downgoing branches. You still get the wild look, but it’s less of a blob and hopefully not moving too much towards being a green helmet.

HI Gavin
A very cool tree and a lively discussion to follow. My first thoughts were what a great set of roots to work with and the trunk with that sharp bend and descending trunk. Great material as for the C-curve branch and the top right out there making a statement i personally like. Funny game bonsai.
Cheers John

Gavin,
I think it presents extremely natural and I like where you're going with it - but like Lisa I think a more natural environment pot would make it go to a new level
John(JP)
CBS

For me the tree is standing too tall . I never thought I would say this to Gavin but i think it needs to lean a bit more , or … The blob ‘ is a bit distracting . I tend to have my trees sitting high in the pot but the beautiful neagari style roots of this tree get lost a bit with that mound of soil , maybe a round pot would lessen that distraction .

Rory wrote: ↑July 8th, 2024, 4:25 pm Interesting thoughts.... however an example to me is the thread on this site about Gardening Australia. The gentleman was really lovely and would be such a nice guy to have a beer with. But his statement saying that he now prides himself on only having natural looking trees, is far from what I saw. I still saw trees that don't look natural to me.
I have purchased Stephen's book on natives and have had a fair squiz at it.
Its interesting what he says about a lot of it. However, the talk that was shared online of a presentation he gave has a sticking point that I strongly disagree with. I prefer to let the tree dictate what it does and wants to do, (provided it looks natural). Having said that, I wouldn't allow a tree to grow vertically upwards all over a tree, as you also have to allow for the fact that the small bonsai doesn't feel its reached its potential and will shoot for the stars of course. But its more so when you allow it to grow unchecked for a while, it can present beautiful natural structures that you would never in a million years conntemplate.

I'm not saying that peoples versions of their before and after is poor.... What I was saying was that they are so often grown as contrived meticulous caricatures of a tree, but yet are often described by the owner as being natural.... and thats what erks me.

I watched that Gardening Australia segment but went back and re-watched to look at the trees again for the purpose of this discussion. I will say from what I could see they were very nice old trees, but I do agree with you they weren't necessarily "natural" in the true sense. They were pruned in quite a formal fashion. It was only a snapshot of a few trees up close mostly figs.

My perspective is you have to draw the line somewhere with how natural you want to go. On one end of the spectrum I will agree that it gets very contrived and you're basically at topiary. On the other end of the spectrum you are just growing shrubs in pots with no illusion of a large tree.

Is anything we do in bonsai really natural apart from the plant growing? I think what you mentioned is the key to getting the most natural features. Letting the tree develop somewhat organically by working it and then letting it do it's own thing for a decent period before working again. But at the same time I think it's really important to do things like wire the tree to give branches detail, as at the end of the day we are trying to create an illusion of size and age in miniature.

On another note I keep coming back and looking at this tree. I don't think the photo is doing it justice Gavin as you mentioned seeing the trunk more in person.

Thanks for your thoughts folks.

Peter/Hanro - most of the work "tidying it up" will make it more simple, more obvious, and less crackling with energy. I agree it's a bit over-the-top. The amount of detail you can get in a tiny 16cm Kunzea is astonishing, if you give up trimming it to an overall silhouette, and trim to highlight the branching and reticulation. At least, that's what I think I'm doing...

KCaR: this one's not going anywhere. Probably better that way.

Patmet, I like your styling, it's full of energy and angles, hence the dedication. When Stephen Callum tells me how an Australian native "should look" he's lost me - I want to explore every possibility that the tree throws out. And cut out the boring bits ruthlessly. Robinson wires everything, but makes it look as if the tree "just grew" - he walks that tightrope beautifully.

I'm not after chaos so much as crackling complexity. I don't want branches that wander along roughly parallel and mostly straight, dense foliage pads that don't evolve coherently from their branches, and just look "stuck on", and a simplistic overall silhouette that looks pretty much like everything else...

Legoman: I think I want that "wild close up" feeling. It's not compulsory, it's just me.

Promethius: I've wired the top a little. It is in fact very open, but a 2D photo compresses everything. Sno: I agree it's too high, but I don't think I'll change it. It feels like a wild cat perched on top of a rock, pouncing downwards...

And with that, I'm off for a cuppa.

Gavin

I appreciate that Gavin. I've definitely taken influence from your thoughts on here. You were the one that got me onto Dan Robinson's work which started the cogs of thinking differently about styling bonsai.

I like what you have done with it since. You can appreciate the trunk much more in this photo, and things are just a little clearer without losing the character. I think this style with the amount of complexity and energy is hard to capture in a photograph and best appreciated in person (as all bonsai are).