AusBonsai

HI all,

I have grown this Claret Top from a tiny tube stock over the last couple of years and looking for ideas on where to go next. I have seen a similar shaped tree that seems to pop up first when searching images online, done by Shibui, and it looks like the direction I would like to take with mine. Unfortunately I don't have anywhere near his skill so would appreciate any help that might point me in the right direction. I am sorry that every time I post, I am asking for help, but I am in awe of how much talent is displayed here, you are all way out of my league.

john

That's some nice growth over a couple of years ... I think it's looking pretty good.
Without having seen the shibui tree you refer to, I wouldn't be changing much, it has nice movement and an interesting base from what I can see. I'd look at your first image as the front and ... Just my first impression ... it might be a little generic for some, or look less convincing in real life so take it as an idea not a contract!
Good luck with it - it's got plenty of interest and good potential, nice job developing it to this stage.

Ryceman3 wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 1:01 pm That's some nice growth over a couple of years ... I think it's looking pretty good.
Without having seen the shibui tree you refer to, I wouldn't be changing much, it has nice movement and an interesting base from what I can see. I'd look at your first image as the front and ...
IMG_3620B.jpg
IMG_3620C.jpg

Just my first impression ... it might be a little generic for some, or look less convincing in real life so take it as an idea not a contract!
Good luck with it - it's got plenty of interest and good potential, nice job developing it to this stage.

Thanks Ryceman, I love the vert, wish I could think like that, definitely food for thought, and much appreciated. Here is a link to the pic from the net that I referred to.

https://images.app.goo.gl/Tjw6Cr6gSGi8Dut39

I may have posted that picture somewhere but can't take the credit for the tree. I suspect it was developed by one of the senoir members of Canberra Bonsai Society as that looks like photo from their annual native show.

I suspect that the inspiration tree is quiet a bit bigger than yours is currently. From memory about 60cm tall??? so it has more room to be impressive. It also ahs quite a bit more age and that's probably why you are not seeing gold in your claret yet. Some more years will mak a big difference.
I would not be too worried about picking a front for now. I have found that growing trees change so much as they develop that the options also change so better to keep options open until the trunk and branches have developed closer to final tree. Just make sure you have branches growing in different directions for a start. Fine detail can be done when you have your trunk and main branches.
Leptospermum grow and develop quite quickly, even in pots so I think allowing growth with occasional harder trims will help. They can sprout new buds from older, bare wood so no problem if you have to cut back below leaf level every now and then.

Thanks Shibui, one picture has your tag on so guessed it must be yours. I think the pic was taken in 2010 and it seems to have developed more since then. I may need to leave it in the orchid pot a bit longer, but at 70, I don’t have as much time as some.

shibui wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 6:11 pm Leptospermum grow and develop quite quickly, even in pots so I think allowing growth with occasional harder trims will help. They can sprout new buds from older, bare wood so no problem if you have to cut back below leaf level every now and then.

same goes for Melaleuca..

Hi John ,
Well done ,it has some nice lines and more than enough branches to work with. The base of the trunk has a nice mature look with good bark. If you are happy enough to have a small tree ,I would cut all of the branches by half .With all the new growth I would start developing your secondary branching. Also in my opinion I think we place to much emphasis in having several thick branches to fill the silhouette ,if there is a bare spot use a small thin branch to fill the gap. It adds interest and contrast . Both fronts look good ,probably decide after new growth appears .Hope that makes some kind of sense. Good luck and keep us all posted.
Cheers John.

Thanks Boom and all who offered advice, it’s good to know that I am not locked in to any particular design at this stage and encouraging to know the tree has some potential even if I don’t have all the skills to maximise it.
I may never produce a quality specimen but I get lots of pleasure watching and working with the trees.
John

same goes for Melaleuca..

In fact most of the common melaleucas, including claret tops, develop much easier than the leptospermums I mistakenly referred to. Well done on picking up that typo.

Looks like Boom an Ryceman have both picked similar paths for the existing tree. I agree that reasonably hard cutback is the way to go to reduce length of straggly branches and start ramification - cut back well below the desired outline and allow new shoots to grow back to the desired size/shape. I've used that technique several times with good success on Mels here.
If you want to go dor a larger size then just allow it all to grow for a year or 2 until the trunk has thickened enough then do the cutback. I suspect by then at least some of the current branches will be too low but you'll need to assess that when the time comes. Sacrifice branches work well with mels and I think dead wood should be considered for many natives as mentioned by Ryceman.

jgmansell wrote: ↑August 20th, 2019, 12:30 pm Thanks Boom and all who offered advice, it’s good to know that I am not locked in to any particular design at this stage and encouraging to know the tree has some potential even if I don’t have all the skills to maximise it.
I may never produce a quality specimen but I get lots of pleasure watching and working with the trees.
John

Hey John,
Excellent thread - well done for posting the tree - it’s a fantastic forum to help you with ideas such as those already provided.

I disagree with one of your comments above “... I may never produce a quality specimen” ... well I reckon you will! Your thirst for knowledge and enjoyment of the hobby will help you develop the skills and in turn, I reckon you’ll end up with numerous quality specimens. I look forward to watching this tree progress.

Ryceman3 wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 1:01 pm That's some nice growth over a couple of years ... I think it's looking pretty good.
Without having seen the shibui tree you refer to, I wouldn't be changing much, it has nice movement and an interesting base from what I can see. I'd look at your first image as the front and ...
IMG_3620B.jpg
IMG_3620C.jpg

Just my first impression ... it might be a little generic for some, or look less convincing in real life so take it as an idea not a contract!
Good luck with it - it's got plenty of interest and good potential, nice job developing it to this stage.

Hi Ryceman, after a few hours of looking at the tree, I decided to follow your vert as best as I could and made the chop this morning. Not sure if it is exactly as you imagined but I could see it definitely needed cutting back to remove the straight section at the top and to improve taper. It seemed all who commented pretty much agreed that it needed to be reduced but not sure if I have cut enough, what do you reckon? The tree is still young so even if I have not made the best job, there will be more opportunities to fix it down the line.
Thanks again
john

Holy smokes John ... you don't muck around!
Yep - think that is pretty much what I was thinking.
For me that definitely gets better taper and movement into the apex and I would expect back budding (quite a bit of it) below where you have cut back to on the branching. You possibly could have gone harder, but I think it is in a good spot now to develop from here. Time to let it grow and build up strength for when the time comes to cut back again. When the jin sacrifice branch has grown out a bit I would look to wire in a bit of movement at the base ... the bit you will keep when you cut it off ... so that it keeps more sympathetic to the rest of the movement. (or even now so long as the foliage on the jin branch does not impede sun/air to the other branches you want to keep).
Maybe something like this ... ... that's up to you but I think at the angle it is at now it would jar a bit with the flow of the trunk (probably being too picky).
No flies on you John, nice work, I think you've improved already nice potential.

Ryceman3 wrote: ↑August 21st, 2019, 2:57 pm Holy smokes John ... you don't muck around!
Yep - think that is pretty much what I was thinking.
For me that definitely gets better taper and movement into the apex and I would expect back budding (quite a bit of it) below where you have cut back to on the branching. You possibly could have gone harder, but I think it is in a good spot now to develop from here. Time to let it grow and build up strength for when the time comes to cut back again. When the jin sacrifice branch has grown out a bit I would look to wire in a bit of movement at the base ... the bit you will keep when you cut it off ... so that it keeps more sympathetic to the rest of the movement. (or even now so long as the foliage on the jin branch does not impede sun/air to the other branches you want to keep).
Maybe something like this ...IMG_3625.jpg ... that's up to you but I think at the angle it is at now it would jar a bit with the flow of the trunk (probably being too picky).
No flies on you John, nice work, I think you've improved already nice potential.

Glad to hear that I haven't messed it up too much, and one of the pluses of being retired is that I have more freedom to do things at times when others would normally be wasting time at work . I put the wire on the future sacrifice branch just to get it out of the way for the photo, but I will also look at putting some movement on it later as you have suggested. Once again, thanks.

john

Ryceman3 wrote: ↑August 21st, 2019, 2:57 pm Holy smokes John ... you don't muck around!
Yep - think that is pretty much what I was thinking.
For me that definitely gets better taper and movement into the apex and I would expect back budding (quite a bit of it) below where you have cut back to on the branching. You possibly could have gone harder, but I think it is in a good spot now to develop from here. Time to let it grow and build up strength for when the time comes to cut back again. When the jin sacrifice branch has grown out a bit I would look to wire in a bit of movement at the base ... the bit you will keep when you cut it off ... so that it keeps more sympathetic to the rest of the movement. (or even now so long as the foliage on the jin branch does not impede sun/air to the other branches you want to keep).
Maybe something like this ...IMG_3625.jpg ... that's up to you but I think at the angle it is at now it would jar a bit with the flow of the trunk (probably being too picky).
No flies on you John, nice work, I think you've improved already nice potential.

Glad to hear that I haven't messed it up too much, and one of the pluses of being retired is that I have more freedom to do things at times when others would normally be wasting time at work . I put the wire on the future sacrifice branch just to get it out of the way for the photo, but I will also look at putting some movement on it later as you have suggested. Once again, thanks.

john

Claret tops are always going to perform better with hard cut backs every few years, otherwise they grow very twiggy and end up looking like topiary. There are quite a few members from BSQ who own them, feel free to pick their brains at the meetings!

Good luck!