AusBonsai

A Few Observations About Bonsai Forest Plantings.

For those with little time, I tend to ramble. In tech terms there’s a saying ‘Too Long: Didn’t Read’ (TL:DR). So, for those with little time here’s the short version.

1. Think about the interplay of roots and terrain when you are planting out young forests
2. Take care when ‘fanning’ trees to create a ‘look’ like trees are finding the light
3. The roots, terrain and trees themselves will help form a natural looking forest
4. Let time contribute to the random feel; just as it does in nature
5. In bonsai forests, roots/nebari are important - on the surface and invisibly (but still thought through) with movement from underneath.
..........
For those that give a toss or have a few more minutes, read on.

I have delaying writing these observations because who am I to write about such matters? Someone with two fifths of stuff all Bonsai experience offering his thoughts. Well stuff it – I have searched numerous threads on AusBonsai and indeed across the matrix of the mysterious inter-web and I can find much about what my main observation: the effect of roots and terrain on bonsai forest plantings of many trees.

I won’t be offended if folk think my thoughts are misplaced; I just wanted to get them out there...

From the outset, my guidance is to think about any forest that you may have walked through and gain inspiration from those experiences. Think about the tracks and paths you may have wondered and the way the roots snaked through the forest, down the side of banks that have been washed away and across well-worn paths.
When you take inspiration from this perspective, I think your forest plantings change. They change at a fundamental level. They change at their root, if you will. (Pardon the pun.)

Much of the existing guidance for group plantings this includes advice like - an odd number of trees, random alignment, the varying sizes/ages of trees of trees, the placement in triangular patterns, older trees to the front, the list is long … and all valid guidance to be sure.

There is also guidance around how we place trees; planting in a manner that sort of fans out, younger trees, angling out from their older siblings, following the light. Take care with this guidance. Proceed with caution .... let me explain. I get the logic, sort of... but the manner in which it is implemented often leads to an artificial spoke type arrangement, where some forests look like a stylized hand-fan/folded out to perfection.

I think forest plantings should reflect what happens in nature. Of course, trees should look like they are finding the light and growing on the context of their neighbours but not so boldly from the beginning; it can look strange at the start and even stranger with the passage of time.

My limited experience to date points to this effect happening naturally as bonsai forests grow; if we put some thoughts into the interplay of the terrain and roots when we establish our forest. Let me try to explain. (Now another caveat – I work with pre-bonsai and often my forests are growing from seedlings and/ reasonably young stock. I guess if you are smashing together old stock what I am about to say won’t work as well because the roots will not have knitted from an early age.)

I reckon it is a good ideal to consider how roots are growing, even at a very young age when placing plants together. Do you want the strong roots to become visible on the surface, snaking through the forest. In some cases, yes. Or, you might want to place a younger tree over the stronger root of a sibling tree... as the sibling grows, it naturally pushes the younger tree up and out; the angle starts to occur ...naturally, randomly. The roots help the trees fan, as does the trees natural tendency to find the light. Just as in nature.

The approach in the paragraph above is far more complex and I would argue immeasurably more thoughtful and enjoyable than banging a tree in on an angle. In my experience (limited though that is) even trees (seedlings) planted like upright sticks will soon find a way to move into more natural positions. Especially if we have considered the roots.

Of course, we need to consider the upper branches too and the interplay if these in the canopy and the overall silhouette of the forest however, as I work with younger trees, I am more likely to consider the roots first as I can encourage new growth in the canopy over time. (Again, caveat – in older or slow growing trees like Shimpaku – my thinking would need to change.) My experience to date is with young deciduous varieties like elms and maples. Forgiving, fast-growing varieties that readily bud back.

Also noting, if things are not turning out like you expected, you still have all the others tools of Bonsai at our behest – wiring trees into the pot, clip ’n’ grow, wiring to shape branches, re-designing at re-potting time etc... By the way – they won’t turn out like expected. We're dealing with nature; if we are lucky and with some knowledge and experience we might create a setting that is close to our imagination but expect the unexpected and adapt.

Let’s briefly think about terrain. Are you going to mounding the soil in our pots or not. If you are, it is likely that trees will angle out naturally off the mounds. We might be able to add the odd rock or moss or natural mound to create movement in our forest or help position a tree as it takes root

And look carefully when we water, is water pooling somewhere, washing away some soil to create an interesting path or expose and interesting root. Don’t necessarily ‘fix’ that issue. That erosion in the pot may add great character. Of course, it may be destroying your design too! In which case you may need to reduce the water flow or put other protections in place.

This is an already long post. I am sure endless words, books, articles have been written about if but I wanted to discuss roots and young forests as I wanted to pass on my observations. In bonsai forests, nebari is important - but not like in the context of one isolated tree - but how the nebari works together. Visibly on the surface and invisibly (but still thought through) with movement from underneath.

Enjoy your Sunday and I hope you haven’t choked on your corn flakes!

A thoughtful and considered post. Thank you for sharing these thoughts. I'm planning to add a few more forests to my collection in the next couple of years and I particularly like your focus on batural development of angles and paths.

Thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts down MJL, i'm coming to the point where i am feeling a little limited by growing individual trees and wanting to start moving into forests and landscapes to push myself a bit more so i really appreciated getting to read through your observations.

What are your thoughts on mixed forests? One of the first things i noted when starting out was the general rule that forests plantings are all of the same species, but i'm starting to question this as in nature it is quite rare to have a forest of only one species. Perhaps this is where the lines of what is prudent from a horticultural, artistic and planting size start to converge to make it quite difficult as different species vie with one another for their own requirements. The reason i ask is i came across 'Shochikubai' plantings where pine, prunus and bamboo are grown together and it got my mind going down a rabbit hole of a mass landscape planting that features multiple species like in nature. Perhaps the limit there is i don't have either a 6ft wide pot, or the space for one to create such a planting in

Anyway thanks for your efforts on this!

Hey Thyme and Tim, thanks for your feedback and I’m happy that these thoughts are helpful.

Tim, your question deserves a better answer than quick thoughts from my mobile but let me provide some top of mind thoughts and maybe revisit when I have more time too.

My head has gone down the same rabbit hole from time to time; indeed I considered a mixed planting for the current native competition with a planting of Moonah and Coastal Tea Tree but I decided against it. I think Ryceman3 suggested I stick to one variant and in my head, it is logical advice to walk before you can run and given that I am am still crawling, a mixed planting seemed a bit of a stretch.

I guess I should also point out that although I love penjing, landscapes and the idea of recreating natural scenes - I am still first and foremost focussed on the tree if that makes sense. If I was focussed on the landscape per se , a mixed planting may be even more exciting. But for me - not yet. That said, there are some mixed plantings at the National Bonsai and Penjing display that are staggeringly good. So fill your boots if that’s what you want to do!

One final point. I guess I started with groups/forests as a bridge to future. It seemed easier to create something substantive and something interesting when I didn’t (and still don’t) really have single trees of quality. Further, I think some people view forests as a way to use second-class or problematic trees too.

Yet, my thoughts have evolved. It is no longer a fast-track or bridge for me; it is not about the use of average trees that, in a group, look good together - unless there’s something evocative about such a design. For me, groups and forests will remain an area of focus throughout my journey in the hobby. This means that the seedlings and forests I am planting are not being planted as single trees to be amalgamated later; they are one entity forming from the start of the tree’s life and that, I believe, will make a huge difference in the long term - even as I continue to learn and make mistakes now.

Again, I ramble.

Cheers,

Mark



Bonsai teaches me patience.
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In my quest to keep learning, I am excited to have ordered a few books today - centred around forest and group plantings. One shows the work of Kato and the other Kimura. Cool. And then, for the sake of it, I placed a speculative purchase on a book that shows the drawings of Naka - not forest related to my knowledge but hey, I was ordering the other two and thought why not. Now the wait ... I have never purchased from Stone Lantern before. Fingers crossed. [THUMBS UP SIGN]


Bonsai teaches me patience.
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Sorry i didn't reply earlier MJL, i too was on my phone when i read your reply so it wasn't conducive to any kind of suitable answer.

You make some very valid points indeed. I am certainly guitly of the 'run before you can walk' mentality so i tend to take an idea and then progress it quickly to the extreme one way or the other. Not always the best method i concede.

I have had in my mind for a few years now recreating a landscape of Australian bush after a fire. I have in my mind what i would like to achieve, but the realities of keeping trees exposed to flame growing in their mature form rather than responding with young growth, combined with having potentailly some dead tress planted in the pot and the inherent difficulties that brings as far as preserving them and keeping pests at bay has thus far held my hand back. That an an absolute lack of plant material to use of course.

The difficulty in using my weeping maples in a forest planting is the sheer size of their leaves compared to straight species, So i am planning to grow a batch of straight species from seed this year (perhaps not 300) and perhaps make some clumps and a forest or two from those. I've some large bonsai pots kicking around the house just begging for a forest, i just lack the material to use. My last attempt with 15 Japanese Larch was a dismal failure but i have since learned why i killed pretty much all of them so that won't be repeated hopefully.

Perhaps a visit to Bonsai Art or Bonsai Sensation to look or some good stock trees might be the logical nest step since i'm not set on a particular species

Funny how little I know...

here I am knitting my roots in my forests and I am reading Koreshoff earlier today and Deborah discusses how best practice is to separate every tree at replanting and treat every tree in isolation.

Flying bang in the face of some of my ideas above. I guess my separating trees you treat every tree with care and are less likely to accidentally killing one tree by randomly shaving too much off one of the trees where roots are knitted - I suppose.

Hmmm. Tapping into an inner stubborn dill - I’m gonna keep knitting my roots; maybe I’ll experiment with a few - separate some and not others. Hmmm.


Bonsai teaches me patience.
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All of my groups have had roots allowed to grow together. From way back I was told to repot the entire group as a single unit so my trident groups have been treated this way for more than 30 years. The sky has not fallen yet.
Early in the life of a group it is possible to remove individual trees or parts of a group to make adjustments. It is also possible to rearrange older groups when it becomes necessary but I don't believe it is necessary to repot each tree at each repot. Some trees in a group should be close together to get a random spacing look. Some of mine are so close that the trunks touch. I suppose if they were repotted individually each time they would only have roots on one side and could still be removed but mine are well and truly integrated.

Not sure where DK was coming from with that info?

Hi Mark ,After reading this topic I think your philosophy on knitting the roots together makes perfect sense. Sure there is going to be pros and cons to each trees development but with this comes the randomness we are all striving for. I have a good supply of seedlings and are going to repot these up mighty close . Gnarly forest here we come. {ten years or so }. John

Just a point of clarification to protect Deborah’s and the Koreshoff’s good name.

I just went back to the book and I note that the section in question (that I referred to earlier) is in italics and cross-referenced: the section in question is actually written by her father Vita.

He notes that it is sometimes difficult to repot group plantings - in effect while disentangling and repotting is difficult - it is the price of a good setting. He then suggests other methods may help make it easier including: 1. a cake cutting method of slicing out slices of soil to allow plants to stay in pot longer and
2. placing shallow partitions/plastic slips at the time of planting.

I am doing the book a disservice with such descriptions - I guess in an otherwise very clear and brilliant book - my favourite - this all seems rather complex.

And my prior comments apply. John and Neil thanks for the encouragement.


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shibui wrote:All of my groups have had roots allowed to grow together. From way back I was told to repot the entire group as a single unit so my trident groups have been treated this way for more than 30 years. The sky has not fallen yet.
Early in the life of a group it is possible to remove individual trees or parts of a group to make adjustments. It is also possible to rearrange older groups when it becomes necessary but I don't believe it is necessary to repot each tree at each repot. Some trees in a group should be close together to get a random spacing look. Some of mine are so close that the trunks touch. I suppose if they were repotted individually each time they would only have roots on one side and could still be removed but mine are well and truly integrated.

Not sure where DK was coming from with that info?

Agreed. Most of what I have read from the K's has been rather amateurish, and of little consequence. I have read quite a few articles from D and have not been impressed by them.
There is no need to ''knit'' roots together and there is no need to separate trees unless re-designing. What is important from time to time is to cut clear holes into the dense centre of the root pad in one or more places to avoid trees weakening. It's particularly important to direct/manipulate at least some of the roots of trees to the outside of the container and without interference from other roots, especially if they happen to be surrounded by other trees. This might mean pruning back roots of outer trees hard to allow free passage on the inner tree's roots.