AusBonsai

I notice with Chinese Elms that trunk chops are used to get trunk movement. Why can't you wire the trunk early to get movement? Is it because you get less taper by wiring?

Usually the trunk is chopped to dramatically increase taper as well as movement. Wiring will only give you movement and only if you do it early. It is a great species to chop as the scar is not usually visible after several years.

Bougy Fan wrote:Usually the trunk is chopped to dramatically increase taper as well as movement. Wiring will only give you movement and only if you do it early. It is a great species to chop as the scar is not usually visible after several years.

So trunk chops are the best way to develop the trunk?

depends on the height and thickness of the tree wanted i think.

Max wrote:depends on the height and thickness of the tree wanted i think.

What if I wanted a 30cm height and 3cm trunk.

I think that is a bit too high for the trunk dia personally. Remember you are normally trying to replicate the scale of a real tree and exaggerating it slightly makes it look older. If you were to go for those dimensions you should be able to do it with wire. A trunk chop (or chops) would be to give you a trunk 50mm at the bottom and 200mm high. All in the eye of the beholder of course

Bonsai is not mathematics. There's not one right answer, rather lots of different ways to get to a similar result.
All answers depend where you are starting - seed, little or big tree; and where you want to get to - thickness, height, taper, scars (or lack), branching, etc.
3cmx 30cm is still achievable by grow and chop but may only need a couple of cycles to achieve.

Grow and chop is usually the quickest way to get a trunk to grow to the desired thickness but there are some drawbacks - can leave large scars that may take extra time to heal up, straight sections, lack of taper in the grow sections.
Plant the tree in a larger pot or the ground and let it grow as tall as it likes until the trunk is nearly as thick as you want (or find/buy a tree with trunk of correct thickness) then cut to around 1/4-1/3 of the desired height (you want a 30 cm bonsai first cut will be at about 8-10cm tall). Then allow a new leader(s) to grow until the base of the new leader nearly matches the lower part then cut the new leader to around 1/2 of the final height. Grow a new leader and let it grow until the base nearly matches the trunk below the cut again. Keep grow and cut until the trunk looks right.

Bonsai can also be developed slowly. Grow the tree in a pot. Allow to grow a bit each year then prune the leader similar to above but it won't grow quite so tall or tick. Cuts will usually be smaller and heal over quicker but the process will take quite a few more years. Growing this way allows more control over the shape and usually produces much better bonsai but takes far longer than most of us want to spend.

if your going by that height a 80-100mm trunk chopped, regrown in another direction for, i dunno, 5-6 years, chopped, regrown in another direction for , i dunno 3 years, in the mean time growing your branches with movement early then cutting them back to stubs and regrowing your secondary branches, then maybe having to graft where a branch is needed.....hahahaha...it goes on doesn't it

hahahaha...it goes on doesn't it

Yep, years and years of it. There's no real quick fixes in bonsai unless you purchase good pre grown material

Max wrote:if your going by that height a 80-100mm trunk chopped, regrown in another direction for, i dunno, 5-6 years, chopped, regrown in another direction for , i dunno 3 years, in the mean time growing your branches with movement early then cutting them back to stubs and regrowing your secondary branches, then maybe having to graft where a branch is needed.....hahahaha...it goes on doesn't it

You can halve that timeframe for Chinese Elms. They grow like weeds. I achieve a minimum growth rate of 25mm (1 inch) per year diameter in my grow beds.

Can c elm be trunk chopped now or late winter?

bonsaeen wrote:Can c elm be trunk chopped now or late winter?

It's summer here

Yes thats what i am asking. Can it be done now or shud be done late winter?

I chop Chinese elms whenever the need arises - I don't particularly worry about the time of year.

bonsaeen wrote:Yes thats what i am asking. Can it be done now....

In my experience - yes, it can be done now, it can be done any time, but definitely not the optimum time for maximum bud-burst.

bonsaeen wrote:..... or shud be done late winter?

IMO this is nearly the best time for me. My Chinese elms burst into life in early to mid-July... it may be different depending on where you live. I like to see bud-swell before I chop, so 2nd or 3rd week of July is my optimum time - mid-winter.

It depends what you are trying to achieve.
When I chop a Chinese Elm trunk, I look to time the chop so I achieve the maximum amount of new buds - giving me a profuse choice of selection for the best position. I then eliminate the ones I don't want, and keep the ones I do want to grow-on.
For me, this optimum time is mid to late July, or even early August. This then allows a full growing season for the buds to grow-on and really develop before winter dormancy sets in again.