AusBonsai

This Ash was supposed to be in dormant but it is flushing new leafs. I acquired this Ash from Melbourne and recently transferred to Brisbane (3 weeks ago) when it went into dormant in Melbourne.

Looks like the warmer weather in Brisbane has bought it out of dormancy early. Nothing to worry about - desert ash have a pretty short dormancy period anyway. Hopefully you weren't looking to root prune it soon!

Matt.

Mine in adelaide is already starting to shoot. Not much to worry about

I agree. This tree thinks it is spring because the temp is up.

Hopefully you weren't looking to root prune it soon!

I think that ash are strong enough to root prune even after they have produced leaves. I have shown that it is possible with trident maple and I rate ash as far tougher than those. If you have doubts then just defoliate and root prune.

Mine haven't even lost their leaves yet?

Might have to defoliate and work on them anyway.

So how long is the dormancy on the Japanese maple (2months)? Both trees came from Melbourne. But it is getting colder in Brisbane. Leafs on my maples are turning reddish and some trident maples have no leaf at all.

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I don't think there is a definite length of dormancy. Trees don't have a calendar. I think they 'feel' the seasons so in some areas dormancy might be 2 months, in other areas it could be 1 month.

Different species seem to have different requirements for dormancy. Ash always start growing early in spring while Japanese maples generally don't grow leaves until much later. Japanese maples seem to be particularly sensitive to warmer climates. If they don't get a long enough winter dormancy they do not stay healthy and often die. (I don't know what length of dormancy is healthy and what would be too short) That's why JM are not recommended for tropical areas. Ash don't seem to have the same issues and will do much better in warmer areas.

To add more complexity it seems that individuals feel the seasons differently so we have members reporting (for example) that some of their trident maples are completely leafless while others in the same area have leaves and are still growing.

I was under the impression trees used temperatures but also decreasing and increasing daylight hours to predict the seasons comings and goings?

Some plants use the amount of daylight, some use the amount of darkness, and soil temperatures will trigger others. Often it's a combination of factors. Genetic variability within species means not all trees of the same species will break dormancy at the same time.

In short, it's hard to predict...

Hello all,

My

The soil temperatures are the main contributing factor in what happens to all plant parts above the ground. The reason being is due to where all the plant hormones are produced, that is, via their roots. If the roots get a bit 'chilly' abscission will begin and as the soil temperatures increase the roots will produce the necessary hormones for bud development.

Also as MacGuyver mentioned to a lesser degree particularly with less wooded plants is the amount of daylight per given season.

That's my understanding, so if your deciduous trees like my Chinese Elms are in plenty of winter sun for most of the day, hence warming your pots (concrete pots being an exception) and regular nutrients the trees will continue to grow in night temperatures here presently between -2 to 8 degrees.

Thanks,
Kevin

P.S. Sorry Matt, i agree exactly with your comments, i started my post, then distracted with the phone. By the time i posted you beat me to it.

Also, curiously, the age of the leaves - I had a trident that defoliated after it dried right out late in the summer - its leaves grew back, and are still bright green, sitting with frost on them in the mornings, while all the others have dropped weeks ago. Not an experiment I'd recommend....

Gavin

I had a trident that defoliated after it dried right out late in the summer - its leaves grew back, and are still bright green, sitting with frost on them in the mornings, while all the others have dropped weeks ago. Not an experiment I'd recommend....

I had similar result a couple of years ago when I pruned the tridents in the grow beds late summer. The new shoots grew in autumn and did not drop leaves all winter (down to -4C). Did not seem to do them any harm and any that were root pruned survived and grew in spring as normal.

I have tridents grown from seedling here in QLD. All have lost their leaf are in dormancy now. JM starting to go into dormancy because all the leafs are reddish. Trident acquired from NSW is in partly dormancy and partly flushing new buds and leafs. So depend where the tree was orginated (seedling) from, dormancy still in their DNA until they adapt to their new environment. Is this fair to say?

Also how can tell if a dedicious tree is in dormancy or dead? Body is wood like texture but some fine roots are still greenish. Dead or dormancy (JM)?

David

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Origin probably does not influence DNA. More likely environment influences the tree for that season so the NSW trees may have already been cold. Now they are warmer and assume (obviously trees can't think but hope you get the drift) that winter is over so start to grow. Your local trees have only experienced cooler temps so far so they are assuming that winter is not yet over. they will all adapt and end up with similar response to your local climate.

I think the most reliable way to check for life in a tree is the bark scratch test - scrape a little bark and see if it is green underneath. green = good, brown = not so good. Note that that will only indicate the area you have scraped is dead/ alive. Sometimes part of a trunk can die but other areas may still be viable.
personally I always wait until mid summer before declaring any of my trees officially dead. Some that have looked dead have occasionally sprouted new shoots in spring or early summer. Some will grow back from the roots even though the trunk has died.