AusBonsai

hey guys and girls!

was wondering if anyone knew the approximate length of time a trident takes during it dormancy??
i could swear last year my trident come into leaf a lot earlier last year than it has this year, it is only just started showing signs of opening up new foliage in the past two days..
i was starting to worry i lost it the past few months( i know a deciduous tree needs a dormancy period) but scratch tests showed other wise.
i am wondering if this longer dormancy means that it is going to flush with a lot more vigorous growth this year or wether it is a bad sign???

i can post pics if needed??

regards jamie

can't hep you there but my tridents came into leaf as soon as spring hit

You should be experiencing warmer weather than me (in Sydney) but most of mine didn't even loose leaves this year. However, tridents do vary quiet a lot genetically; i.e. there are lots with different characteristics (leaf size, shape, bark colour, texture, and length of time they hold leaves etc). You also have a certain micro climate in your immediate area, which may vary considerably. Ask some locals what theirs are up to, but its probably nothing to worry about.

JayC

I have some here in full leaf and some hardly starting there are many variables from genetics to even where in the yard you have it.
I had many trees that came out of the ground sitting on the concrete floor of the shade house and I just figured that the cold concrete is probably why they are being so slow to come out.

ahh ok, this is interesting, i knew there was a vast range of genetically different species, i would ask someone locally but there isnt any clubs up here that i can join, i think i might head to the nursery that stocks them this weekend(saplings) and see what theres are like.
i was under the impression that the tree comes out of dormancy due to day length, temperature etc.
it has been warming up over the past few weeks (3-4 to be exact) but on that note i suppose it answers my question a bit there about opening earlier last year because it could of been warmer earlier too.???

i will post pics soon as i can to give you an idea of what this one is, as in leaf shape(when they come out), bark colour etc.

My root over rock maple is always the last to bloom.

Same again this year. Ive got chinese elms that have opened as early as 4 weeks ago. Hekates crab apple has flowers and leaves all over it, but my maple is still stuck wondering if it should blossom or not..

When it does leaf, its very pretty.

Bretts wrote:I have some here in full leaf and some hardly starting.

Ditto. Couldn't put a finger on why - maybe it's just variation across the species.

Jamie: I guess the good news for you is that the buds are popping...

Thanks and good luck.

Fly.

Ditto. Couldn't put a finger on why - maybe it's just variation across the species

I think it is more to do with micro climate. I have seen it stated by very knowledgeable people that only the amount of light per day can affect the dormant period and it has nothing to do with temperature. I don't think this is fully true. I think temperature has alot to do with it as well. Like the soil being over a certain temp for a certain period. That is why I think that my trees in nursery pots in the shade house on the cold concrete are taking longer than the others.

In the royal botanic gardens Sydney, there is a row of Chinese elms (Ulmus parvifolia) that are growing in the same conditions, have the same intensity of light for the same duration, watered the same, and are the same age. However, some have more of a weeping habit than others, and some lost all their leaves, whilst others kept up to half of their leaves. All have shot out now, but the buds burst about a month apart from the first and last to do so. If anybody is interested, they are above the "Herb Garden".

*EDIT* Oh yeah, so I'm blaming genetics.

JayC

I think it is more to do with micro climate.

I didn't say genetics had nothing to do with it otherwise all the species would bud out the same time

well this has turned out to be an interesting little topic. i have read somewhere the same thing as you brett. it has more to do with daylight length, but i also think you may be right about the soil temperature, obviously longer day, warmer soil etc, will make the tree respond, i am amazed tho as in my climate it doesnt generally get that cold and daylight length shouldnt be a problem, sun is up around 5 30am here and goes down about 6, longer as it gets later in the year. ie. middle of summer sun comes out about 4 30 am, and doesnt go down til later..

FlyBri wrote:

Bretts wrote:I have some here in full leaf and some hardly starting.

Ditto. Couldn't put a finger on why - maybe it's just variation across the species.

Jamie: I guess the good news for you is that the buds are popping...

Thanks and good luck.

Fly.

and yeah damn straight, was starting to think i lost this one too. i had like 6 and this is the only one that survived..

thanks guys, keep this going i am sure we will come to some form of conclusion but i dont think we are there yet

Yep like quantum mechanics mine is an unfinished theory also

Bretts wrote:Yep like quantum mechanics mine is an unfinished theory also

i am going back to the same nursery this weekend to see how their maples are going, they're only starters but i might get 1-2 more just as a testing scenario, mine in a bonsai pot, i will put one of the new trees into another bonsai pot and keep one in the plastic pot i buy it in. i will have them in different locations, the new one in the pot in a different spot, where it gets the same amount of light water etc. and the plastic pot one in a different location where it will receive less light, this will be the control..
does that sound about right??
let me know if there is anything different you would like to see in this test to try and figure it out.
i will start a new thread for the testing but would like to keep this one going!

no comments or ideas on how to make this test better???

jamie111 wrote:no comments or ideas on how to make this test better???

Just in case genetics does have something to do with it, i think you should start with cuttings made from the same parent tree. They will be genetically identical, thus eliminating everything but the position they are in.

What are you testing? You should only test light differences or pot differences at once. Also, note that with such a small sample size, the results will be inconclusive. Still, it does sound like fun. Let us know how it goes!

JayC