AusBonsai

Hey all,

Just picked up this trident today after a few weeks of deliberation. It is a great foundation and with a little work will turn into one of the stars of my growing collection And a shot of the movement in the trunk (sorry, best I could do) First step will be to take it along to the course on Sunday and have another couple of eyes look over it. Then I think the first right hand branch will go, as well as a bit of a clean up and work selecting primary and secondary's that will stay, then it will be on to ramification but it is already off to a much better start than I could have managed I think.

Any advice/opinion would be most welcome

Kez

Hi Kez,

Nice tree! I think the foundations are of a very fine specimen in the future and I can see why you purchased it!

Here's a little video you may find interesting which is about pruning deciduous trees for ramification.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvNo-igPgO0

Keep us posted on the progress.

Regards,
Mo

Hey Mo,

Cheers for the encouragement and the link mate, have watched quite a few of Grahams vids, he's awesome. I have recently been watching a series titled "the bonsai art of japan" on youtube which I have also been blown away by, theres a great one about ongoing development/maintenance of Japanese maples which should help me as well, and I was also reading Peter Tea's blog as he is doing some interesting work with Tridents.

Lots to keep me busy

Kez

This is a beautiful Trident in great form.
I noticed the large trunk cut and I have a few with fairy large cuts too.
I am curious to hear your experience on how to progress with pre-bonsai at this stage.
You have mentioned you will start ramification.

Do you think it is also appropriate to let some of the branches to free-grow for a few years so the large cut will heal over?
I know this has the risk or coarse growth but I also feel some cuts will never heal over if I start to slow growth by pruning.

What do you think?

kez wrote:First step will be to take it along to the course on Sunday and have another couple of eyes look over it.

A good score kez and a good idea. it is always good to get input as to the trees direction. Sometimes we can get a little tunnel visioned.

kez wrote:Hey Mo,

Cheers for the encouragement and the link mate, have watched quite a few of Grahams vids, he's awesome. I have recently been watching a series titled "the bonsai art of japan" on youtube which I have also been blown away by, theres a great one about ongoing development/maintenance of Japanese maples which should help me as well, and I was also reading Peter Tea's blog as he is doing some interesting work with Tridents.

Lots to keep me busy

Kez

Hi Kez,

That Bonsai art of Japan series is pretty good, but leaves out so many of the finer details. You're taking a big step in the right direction by taking it to a club, as Bodhi has said. You'll get a better depth of knowledge and understanding this way.

I like to watch the Bonsai art of Japan for inspiration though, noting that the tree's they work on are incredibly old and have been trained through generations and generations. I've been through the entire series several times for this reason.

Peter Tea has got some amazing posts on Tridents, I'm looking forward to when he will post his method of grafting which does not cause swelling and looks more natural (for Junipers) as well.

Cheers mate,
Mo

Thanks folks,

As far as my thoughts on refinement vs growth and healing, well I'm not 100% sure about what is the right direction. I do know there is some unruly branching that needs to be seen to though and as far as a starting point I just thought this was as good a point as any.

As for ramification, my approach will be 2x2 etc.

I'm not sure how the scar will heal, in time I suppose

Kez

Kez,

Questions on this forum about what to do may be easier when the tree has dropped its leaves. The we can see what's under there! Looks like a cracker mate!

I have been waiting for ages to get a decent look under this trees leaves and do some work as I had some suspicions that it had a couple of problems. Well this tree has finally lost enough of its leaves (and what it hadn't lost were knocked off) for me to get to work.

The tree was better than I thought, with the beginnings of some good ramification (i thought I was going to find long branches with foliage at the very tips) but it did have a few areas where multiple branches were coming out of the same place, or branches were just pointing in the wrong direction in general.

I went through and cleaned up what I could and then got some wire onto it and did some initial placement, there is still a major section of branching where 2 are coming off the trunk at the same place, but these 2 branches are a big part of the shape so I will wait and see what spring brings before making a decision regarding this area.

Here's the tree now And one from above to show the branching Here's looking forward to spring!

Any thoughts or advice are most welcome

Kerrin

Looks like nice stock,for me the first two branches on the right seem a little too low, definately the first but perhaps not the second. It almost starts on the wrong part of the trunk-or is that just me?

Nice tree, great to see the progress so far. Your not wrong about this being a ripper in the future.

Isitangus wrote:Looks like nice stock,for me the first two branches on the right seem a little too low, definately the first but perhaps not the second. It almost starts on the wrong part of the trunk-or is that just me?

I think the first right branch could be pulled more towards the back of the tree so as not to lose it all together but it wouldn't contrast with the heavy sway to the left. The body of the tree has that great forced movement in it to the left and I find that first light branch moving directly opposite to that not complimenting the power of the tree. So I think pulling it around to the back would look part of that movement.

as it is at the moment the flow seems all wrong and has no, or at least has inconsistant taper---If it were mine I would consider trying for two trees (trunk chop or air layer above the first or second branch)---the removed top could be a very nice shohin informal upright----the remaining bottom with the first or second branch as new leader, would have better taper--and would need to be tilted way right or left depending on the nebari then perhaps carved to deal with that major scar then grown on for a couple of years to develop some lower branches

I like the stock Kez but there are a few issues I am worried about.

1. you have already mentioned the 2 big branches coming from the middle of the trunk

there is still a major section of branching where 2 are coming off the trunk at the same place, but these 2 branches are a big part of the shape so I will wait and see what spring brings before making a decision regarding this area.

It might be possible to remove the main trunk above here and use one of these as a new trunk (tilt the entire trunk right a bit to bring the top back over base?) That would give a major change of direction and more taper. Otherwise 1 of the branches really does need to go.

2. The left of these double branches has side shoots pointing up and down. Branches need to have side shoots rather than up/down shoots. it is sometimes possible to twist a branch to realign up/down to side/side. Otherwise remove up/down twigs.

3. Below these 2 branches is a very straight branch (is it a double branch from the trunk or is that smaller bit a shoot off this branch?) Either wire some movement to match the other branches or cut it back and regrow from the resulting buds to get better movement and taper.

4. 2 of the lower branches have long bare areas. Are these made from long internodes? If you keep these you will eventually want some ramification on them. May need to consider cutting short and regrowing to get better ramification.

5. Apex is a mass of heavy branches all coming from 1 place. Definitely needs thinning or removing completely.

Very difficult to make really good comments about a tree from a 2D picture so maybe these points are not valid for this one

Thanks for the input folks, much to consider!

At this stage I look at this tree as something I have just begun on, thus far I would be happy in building the primary and in some areas secondary structure and letting it ramify over the next couple of seasons, I do not in any way consider this a well refined tree at this stage. I do however think the structure is there thus far, and I have been reading a lot of Harry Harrington's articles and I really like the way he moves more towards a natural style of tree in regards to branch movement, especially regarding branches that move upwards towards the apex. I know that this tree has a somewhat un-natural shape, and that the branches at the top of the tree are somewhat thick, but if I can build the ramification from there then I hope this will look more balanced.

I don't mean to defend the tree in any way against the critique (which it, and I, need), I just wish to give a bit more of an indication of where I think it is at.

In the interests of the above, I took out the camera again to show the tree a little better (I hope)

Anyway, the front, again Left side Back Right side Ramification of the lower branches looking from the back Ramification of lower branches from the front Hopefully this paints a clearer picture,

Looking forward to more input

Kez

I'ld be interested in some input from others more experience than I, but for my your current back looks like a better front and a chop above the thick branch going to the right (from the back side) about 4 branches up (hard to be sure from the photos) and a new planting angle to the left with a slight twist to the left would give a nice tree.

A question: are you happy with the trunk? If so then work on the branch structure. If not I wouldn't be too worried about building branches just yet. Grow strongly, build the trunk and then worry about primary branches and developing taper in them.

Another question: did you take it to a club meeting and get advice in the bark?

Good luck