AusBonsai

Hi there.

So I've had this JBP for a short while now.
It's powering along ok but as you can see it's pretty leggy and a lot more "loose" than I'd like.

I'm thinking a bit of a windswepty type idea as a few of the existing branches I think will lend themselves to this style.
Originally I had wanted to keep growing it out but due to the dominant apex it seems to be sucking energy from the lower parts of the tree.
I really do not want a larger tree for this one (yet) and do not want to lose the lower development.

I've noticed around 6 odd new buds popping at the bend (marked below #1 and circled in red).
Am I cool to chop at this location with the view to promote a new leader?
I have also thought to chop at location 2 to keep the tree a little more compact in this location as well?

Last question I have is in regards to all these new buds popping..
Should I simply rub out the excess buds to avoid wasting energy on unwanted branching?

I look forward to views, ideas and advise!
I'm an absolute rookie when it comes to pines!

Cheers,

Let them all pop, the tree needs to produce some green foliage and improve its ability to photosynthesise. In winter you can select which ones to remove.

Hi Boics,

You have the right idea but I would hold off chopping as the buds need to develop into foliage first to sustain the tree once you chop, leave it a few months

If your intention is to shorten the tree then why not chop just above the second branch (the one pointing directly towards the camera) ? You could then wire it up to form the new leader and you would already then have a head start on some taper.

cheers,

Jeff

Thanks for the quick replies guys.

It seems the consensus is clear that a chop shouldn't happen right now.

However I am now a fraction confused..
A short while back I noticed a similar bud or two like those circled which popped and (I think) died off.
My theory was that I'd chop the more prominent areas to force some energy into these less prominent zones before I see a repeat of these lost buds.
If I let the tree grow now and then chop how do I avoid a repeat of losing these new buds?

Jeff that is indeed sound advise and certainly has been considered to this point.
I sort of liked the idea of having a few branches flapping in the "wind" rather than just a couple.
I suppose I'm just worried about the small number of branches currently available and the tree's willingness to back bud on that older wood.

Once again newbie pine disclaimer applies!

Hi,

It might be a good idea to just cut the tips that are growing more and thin it out a bit to try and push the energy down to the new buds??

I would like to know your habits with this tree regards feeding and watering. To me it looks like this tree needs a lot more foliage before you contemplate a style. You run the risk of limiting your options selecting a style with sparse growth. Aim for something like this beginner pine i have posted.. Pines stay workable for a long time especially regards bending and placement. If you have a trunkline in mind, wire that, but let your branches grow and produce budding for secondary's.

bodhidharma wrote:I would like to know your habits with this tree regards feeding and watering. To me it looks like this tree needs a lot more foliage before you contemplate a style. You run the risk of limiting your options selecting a style with sparse growth. Aim for something like this beginner pine i have posted.. Pines stay workable for a long time especially regards bending and placement. If you have a trunkline in mind, wire that, but let your branches grow and produce budding for secondary's.

Hi Bodhi, thanks for posting.

All my tree's by default get watered twice a day at the moment via an automatic timer (morning and evening).
I stop my automatic watering if things are wet and manually water when I'm around.
For the most part I try not to over or under water.

In regards to feeding I use Seasol, Osmacote (Small amount in my soil mix), Charlie Carp and Dynamic Lifter.
At this time of the year I rotate between all of the above, in smaller doses - typically on a fortnightly basis.

This tree was always very leggy and sparse when I got it (~6 months ago).
Since purchase I have....
1. Slip potted into a larger port.
2. Decandled some growth in December to try and promote branching / back budding.

I would envisage that item 2. is why the tree looks particularly sparse right now.
Once again I de-candled with the view to promoting some adventitious buds / ramification on the few branches that exist.

Upon closer inspection the tree does actually have a heap of new buds popping everywhere right now.
If I were to let it run it's course I can envisage it looking a lot more dense in a few months time..

Boics wrote:Upon closer inspection the tree does actually have a heap of new buds popping everywhere right now.
If I were to let it run it's course I can envisage it looking a lot more dense in a few months time..

Excellent, If it were mine i would hang off styling as the tree will change immensely and give many more options.

Pictures of said buds..

Which brings me to a question (adjusts Pinus newbie hat).
What is the difference between buds and the little guys that are popping from the hardwood (Red circled pic #2 above).

I am most concerned about the smallest branch on the bottom (pic #2 below)
This little branch is looking the worst for wear and I really do not want to lose this one..

Your problem is the tree is unbalanced. Remove some needle from the dense strong areas and don't remove any from weaker zones.

Be careful. There is not much foliage to begin with so removal of any will weaken the tree a little but hopefully it will be the strong areas that weaken while the weak areas catch up.

These new buds on older wood (called adventitious buds) often die off if they don't get enough light (no point in the tree producing branches where there is not enough light to be of use to the tree) or if the trunk above is strong (no point in producing new branches when the top part is already growing well - send all available energy to the strong apex). remember that trees are programmed to grow tall as quickly as possible to compete with others so as much energy as possible is directed to buds which have the best chance to grow tall. as bonsai growers we need to be aware of this and work out ways to subvert this natural tendency!

If I was trying to promote these buds I would cut back the strong apex which is taking nearly all the energy (possibly also the reason the lower branches are weak). You should leave some green needles to keep the branch alive but weaken it enough to stimulate the tree to try to grow relacement shoots. I would cut the apex back leaving maybe just 4 or 5 pairs of needles. That should be enough to keep the branch alive but allow energy to be diverted to growing possible replacement shoots.
If the tree is already producing new buds I think it is strong enough now to do this but let the new buds grow freely for a year to recharge strength afterward.

Thanks so much for your reply Shibui.

This makes a lot of sense and is very well put.
When I said that I de-candled I did this only from the top section of the tree only (month ago or so).
This was the only area at the time that I thought vigorous enough to attempt this practise.
I also removed a few of the older needles.

As suggested I might try and weaken this upper area just a little more to see if I can direct a bit of energy to lower parts of the tree and adventitious buds.

Cheers all.

In the interests of documentation.
This tree has had a bit of a journey over the years and with the help of Jow and the forum I've learned a lot about JBP / Pines.

Interestingly the adventitious buds have struggled but a couple still persist.
Really I should probably just remove this final stump (as it's part of a 3-way juncture) but I''ve actually kept it purely out of curiosity to see if I can nurture to a viable branch.

Plans are probably just to start to bring some depth to the tree and improve ramification - maybe a pot for this one soon too but no rush.

Maybe a few more years grow long - cut back once a year to get a bit more meat on the trunk. It's too good a line to skimp on the thickening, for my 2c.

Nice line, please keep posting.

Gavin