AusBonsai

Hi guys, I guess the title sums up my question....

I was reading this profile on Walter pall:

http://artofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=241

Ive seen the photos of guys in Japan in the mountains collecting these Amazing pines and Junipers etc. I was also In Yosmite about 2 months ago and my eyes almost rolled out of my head looking at all of the potential stock.

The idea of going on these hunts really excites me but I cant really think of anywhere (especially within 2-3 hours of Sydney) where there would be trees like this that I could collect LEGALY. Am I just not thinking hard enough or is our climate and terrain lacking so to speak?

I guess its a species thing too. I would say there would be places here to collect figs and natives more so than Junipers and the likes?

We just appreciate our natural environment more than other countries i spose.... unless we want a new highway or bunnings...

Would love to go collecting, but as his profile said, I'm waiting until I'm sure I won't kill what I find lol

I have collected figs from rural Queensland, radiata pines from the side of the road in Victoria and recently went on a olive dig with Mr Alpine art.

Apart from those three varieties of trees, its slim pickings unless you like english elm or hawthorn ( which I don't like )

I guess you summed it up when you said legally. I'm sure that the required permissions are obtained by said people overseas, but how do we do this in OZ? Apply to council? I reckon most councils wouldn't let you collect trees because 1. they put them there for a reason, 2. they are there to maintain the environment or 3. If they gave you permission, they would then be liable if you hurt yourself. Out of those no. 3 is probably the biggest factor. I haven't done any collecting myself for this exact reason. But really there are trees everywhere that I know would make good subjects, problem is I am not willing to get busted for digging up a tree. Perhaps if you're a member of a club they could organise a dig?

I know what you mean----



viewtopic.php?f=131&t=13680

Growing in a dry continent, most of our natives send down deep roots - digging them up is a guaranteed fail/death/dismay scenario. Natives by rivers and in bogs survive quite well - see some of Pup's Melaleucas for example, dug where highways were being constructed. Callistemons also dig well,for the Casuarina family the jury is out, same for Leptospermum - few successes. It's only legal to collect natives on private property, with the permission of the owner, and some growers even feel that raiding the natural environment for your own personal reward can be considered unethical.

Most of the seriously mad wild stuff in Euro and Japan comes from windswept mountains with high rainfall - the few areas like that in Oz are National Parks, and the treasures therein are for everyone, not just the first bloke in with a shovel. I believe that there's now very little left in the mountains of Japan, and much of their wild stock is taken from other countries.

That being said, many of the very fine Shimpakus in Taiwan are in fact all man-made - we should be able to grow good "wild" stock, with a little imagination.

There are a lot of feral pests, like olive, hawthorn, English elm in some areas, and radiatas that escape and multiply - it's a positive community service to dig them (with permission), but with the reservation that they are "paddock" grown, not usually "wild", and the trunk shapes aren't usually the crazy stuff that extreme conditions can produce.

There's been plenty of discussion on this in the past - "search" is your friend.

Gavin

Gavin

Perhaps the rest of the world is behind the 8 ball

Damian Bee wrote:Perhaps the rest of the world is behind the 8 ball

Exactly

Andrew F wrote:

Damian Bee wrote:Perhaps the rest of the world is behind the 8 ball

Exactly

oi oi oi

No we are not behind the eight ball, we are right on the money.

Andrew F wrote:We just appreciate our natural environment more than other countries i spose.... unless we want a new highway or bunnings...

When the opportunity arises it is possible to collect many natives & with experiments the possibility for many more exists. As more & more of our bush gets ripped up for 'development' the potential for some great collected natives is there, we just have to understand the needs of each.

There are opportunities to collect in Australia. They require careful planning and time commitment to make sure they are legal, ethical and the results successful. That is because we appreciate our environment.

In Taiwan bonsai growers make up for the lack of collectible material by growing exceptional field and nursery raised pre-bonsai. Have a look as some of the field grown Juniperus chinensis and nursery grown Ficus microcarpa being exhibited by the Taiwan Bonsai Creators Association - they rival any yamadori (mountain collected plant) I have ever seen. Much to their credit a growing number of Australian bonsai growers have embarked upon this path.

Ash

2 things:

1. Good on Australia for seeking to manage their natural resources!

2. As an American who has immigrated to Oz, I'm glad you enjoyed Yosemite. It is a beautiful place with perfect yamadouri conditions. That being said, it would have been 100% illegal to take anything living or dead out of that park. So its not just Oz who governs such things.

Are any of you 'collectors' aware that shimpaku is close to extinct on many mountains where it previously flourished? The reason is over collecting for the bonsai trade. It is now illegal to collect these trees in Japan but the suppliers have just shifted to the mountains of Korea where regulation is less strict and continue to rape and pillage the environment for profit.

I'd rather be able to go and see these incredible trees growing in their natural habitat where the surrounding environment can tell me so much more. A collected tree in a show (if they survive the transplant) will only convey part of the story. Most will just get locked up in someones backyard and appreciated by a priveliged few and the rest of us would just miss out on inspiration altogether.
I collect exotic weeds and garden plants when the opportunity arises but please leave the inspirational natives in their proper places

Shibui is correct. Japanese professionals are setting their sights on mostly north Korea And also western Russia. There is also chatter about importing large quantities of collected stock from the mountains of Europe.