AusBonsai

Hi all.

I see a lot of talk on here about mix and people copying people and some using certain mixes as opose to others and it got me thinking I should start a thread on it.

The question is what makes your mix so great? I want to know why diatomite is better thanakadama or why its beter than scoria or visa versa? Lets all give our opinion on the why and why not front and see if it can help us all create a better mix. Now I realize there are going to be varients on the mixes for different species but if so lets see why there are variants.

I will start but please note I have only a tiny amount of experience so far so I can only make comments based on this limited experience.

I generally use a mix with 6 components as follows.
1. 2 parts composted hort bark graded 5 to 10mm to allow porosity in the mix and a surface that nutrients can be stored and used by the plant. It is comosted so it does not use my nitrogen from the fertalizers to aid in the composting process.

2. 2 parts Diatomite which is a material I am only just new too. It has certain characteristics that I like and others I do not. If Iit where possible I would use I would use 1 part diatomite 1 part scoria in 5mm grade but I havent been able to find the 5mm grade so I have continued using the diatomite. The scoria to me has air filled voids which I feel could hold pockets of water and nutrients where the diatomite does not. The diatomite also crushes between your fingers so I an sceptical on its longevity in a mix and that it might possibly fill air space withing a mix over time. the advantage of these 2 materials is there weight which will help me greatly as my back starts to give in.

3. 1/2 part perlite which aids in drainage along with the diatomite but has water holding capacity. Its probably not used more in the mix due to cost and the fact I dont want all the elements to hold water.

4. 1/2 a part peat moss to aid in water retention but I am unsure of how to balance the acidic effect it has on the mix. This at the moment is an experiment and I may look at moving to coco peat as an alternative to combat this issue. I would love to hear some thoughts on this product.

5. 1/8 part prcessed chook poo to give instant supply of fertalizer and aid in kicking of the nutrient supply. I think this serves a purpose for the first six weeks or so.

6 1/8 part 6 month slow release fert to continue the nutrient supply and I subsidise this with liquid feed when required.

Now lets start the discussion and get some thoughts going.

Squizz

I have been using it the present one for 15 years, and my trees are all healthy and grow well.

Cheers Pup


Two parts Carnarvon river sand two parts Fine(hard )akadama one part coco peat.

I worry bout the inclusion of chook poo. Newly potted trees want to grow new roots which may suffer, I like to add it to the surface of the soil occasionally after the roots are established.
It also makes the soil mix unsuitable for azaleas.

I like to add charcoal to my mix, I believe it lowers the likelihood of fungal infection. (but would like to know more about the benefits)

Pup.

Is carnarvon river sand fine? I dont know it. Does someone on the eastern side know of a comparible material so I can understand?

Does this mean the only organic component of your mix is coco peat. Do you need to reguarly liquid feed to keep the nutrient supply constant or is there a fertilizer in your mix aswell.

Squizz

Gerard,

The chook poo is not a large amount so I have not thought of this being and issue ( maybe it is though). Charcoal? dont know anything about it. I noticed a stock pile of rock ash ( is this pot ash?) at the landscape supplies the other day and I have seen it included in a general mix for nursery stock but I have no idea of its benefits. Maybe it is similar to charcoal?

Squizz

Potash is potassium, (N,P,K......K=potassium)

So this pile of rock ash type stuff is potash in its raw form? Is it man made in a furnace or kiln? I have seen it and used it over the years without question in nurseries but I have never totally known what it is exactly. If it is potash there is obviously a limit to the amount you would add to a mix. Does anyone know what that limit is?

squizz

I think that rock ash and potash are not the same

Hi Squiz

My mix, 2/3 Diatomite, 1/3 Zeolite
Diatomite for its water holding capacity ( better than anything else I have tried I reckon including Akadama, and Rays own mix)
Zeolite for its high Cation Ratio, ( ability to hold nutrients for the roots to access)

The reasons I use these is
- I cannot find anything better. Hold water longer in summer than Ray Nescis mix, and if does dry out a simple water will re-wet the soil. Rays or any other organic mix I have tried is really hard to rewet the soil particles after they dry out too much. This applies especially to the surface layer in the pot. If it dries out, the water tends to run off rather than soak in and be absorbed.
- With pure inorganic mix like I use, Drainage is excellent, No chance of roots staying too wet.
- no Curl grubs I have lost so many trees to these buggers, I will never go back to an organic mix.

I am going to try some Pumice whenever I can get of the other side of sydney and get some. It had a high porosity and apparently holds water well but probably optional for me.

I use Scoria as a layer in the bottom of my grow pots, to stop the smaller Diatomite / zeolite falling thru. The value it as water holding component I doubt as yes it has holes in it but they will be far too large to retain for too long and the rock component is too hard to absorb any moisture. Pumice wil do better than Scoria IMHO

one thing I will definitely disagree with you ins the longevity of Diatomite.
I have had several handfuls of it in a sealed Jar of water for over 5 years and it is still has firm as when it went in.
It is quite brittle, but does not crush between fingers. There is very little Compaction and "filling of air space".

Ken

I am running some trials with inorganics, I am finding some issues with composted pine bark, mainly in the form of nitrogen lock down or some type of toxicity when I plant Azalea into it. The only issue is that Pine bark is soooooooooo cheap and inorganics can be pricey.

Has anyone else had issues with Pine lately?

What makes my mix great??

Well its mine for starters

Just kidding.

I prefer to use diatomite, zeolite, and pine nuggets (orchid minis)

I have used various combinations of these ingredients including 100% diatomite. I feel there is no great need for pine nuggets, but I continue to use it as it makes the diatomite go further which is hard to come by in SA. The mix I made today was approx 80% diatomite, 10% zeolite 10% pine bark minis.

I think the most important factor when deciding on what mix to use is as long as it is free draining and water retaining with non uniform sized/shaped particles you can't go wrong

there are two thoughts on organics in bonsai mixes as far as i can see it, and each have merits.

Firstly as mentioned, organics have the problem of sometimes drying out, or harbouring pests.

Inorangics water easily, (as long as you have something that abosrbs water and also drains well) and flush the "crap" out becuase they are so free draining.

Adavantages of Inorganics:

- free draining
- not a lot of concern of over fertilizing because they are so free draining
- relatively pest free
- most hold a good amount of water

Disadvantages of inorganic mixes

- needs a lot of watering to keep it moist (no soil to hold excess water)
- have to fertilize a lot, and often
- dry out quicker than a mix with organic in it
- very little microbiological breakdown of nutrient

Advantages of organics

- still relatively free draining if a good mix with inorganic compoenents is used
- hold nutrient from fertilizing and feeding to a certain extent whilst still allowing the mix to adequately "flush" uneeded nutrient
- holds more water, but not too much (or the same amount of water but possibly for a longer period of time)
- creates a microbiological environemtn for natural breakdown of nutrient into compoenents able to be used by the plant, creates an environemtn for beneficial bacterial and fungus to thrive
- can provide feeding in itself if a nutrient rich organic component is used, worms castings for instance

Disadvantages of organics

- can harbour pests
- can hold too much water if the mix isnt formualted right with the right amount of inorganic to make it free draining enough
- can sometimes make a heavier mix
- in wet environemtns it can become water logged (too much rain)
- in some cases can fix nutrient (nitrogen fixation) in the case of pine bark, as it decomposes

I personally have gone back to the use of organics and i am finding amazing results from it.

My current mix is
40% diatomite (soon to be pumice as i no longer can get duatomite and would like to try pumice), 20% zeolite (currently playing with this amount as an oragnic mix doesnt need as much CEC) 40% worm castings.

as i find new suitable materials like rock minerals it will most likely add a small opercentage of this while decreaseing the amount of zeolite.

This mix is still a work in progress, but so far it has worked fantastically, my privet is pushing new growth even now, my boug is pushing new flowers daily and my figs need trimming fortnightly (currently trying to create some branch structure, so the trimming isnt huge, but the buds and new shoots are everywhere) and its bloody freezing in newcastle.

Added to this that i havent fertilized for 9 months now, except for with worm tea/leechate, and i dont water as often as i really should, and the use of organics in my mix, especially worms castings, is something that i think i will continue to use.

Worm Castings have a good cation exchange making them a good addition, I am using them for the first time this year in my mix for maples, I don't want to risk it on Azalea as I fear the drainage will clog up and the dreaded root rot.

What makes my mix great?

It holds the sufficient moisture for my watering regime.
It holds sufficient fertiliser for my fertilising regime.
It is coarse enough for free air movement throughout the profile.

If you can find a mix that does those three things for you, it will be a winner.

Joel

Hey guys I use 60% pumice 10% zeolite 20 % potting mix 10% coco peat